Echo Visor: Skipped!

2004-12-24 02:19:32 am

Due mostly to Sparky's find of the Secret World in Hive Dynamo Access (I think that's what it's called) and... I've been told that Samus 3 and 4 and Quadraxis don't NEED the Echo Visor, I've bypassed the one echo door that leads to Quadraxis. So as far as I can tell, I'm on track to beating the game with no Echo Visor :D .

First, jump off the "Ing Guy" and jump forwards, in the direction of Hive Gyro Chamber. Then, on your right is a sticky section that you can bomb jump up. Lay a bomb, and hold into the wall, and right before the bomb blows, release the control stick for maximum speed. Once you get to the top, unmorph and you should be on the ceiling of the room.
Walk your way back towards Hive Dyanmo Access and stand high up above the door. From there, follow the curve of the room and run quickly towards Hive Gyro Chamber from the ceiling of the SW. Once you get a few meters from the door, drop down in morph ball form and unmorph at about the right level which would land you on the floor of Hive Gyro Chamber. The room will load around you, and once it does (you can tell since your power beam shots will smack into the walls), walk forward into the door and then walk backwards. Hive Gyro Chamber will load around you :D . Overall, from the time you jump off the Ing Guy to the time you land in HGC, it's no more than thirty seconds if done well. I lost between 30 and 40 energy, so it's definitely low-percent worthy.

Now, don't do this before you get Screw Attack and whatever you need to feel comfortable with fighting Quadraxis. If you land in HGC without everything you need to kill Quaddy (like I just did... fresh out of Torvus Rolling Eyes

) then you'll be stuck in HGC, since you can't go to fight Quaddy and get annihilator nor can you backtrack since the Echo door blocks your path.

Now all that's left for me to do is complete the game and make sure all of the Ing Caches still appear. If that's the case, then laa-dee-daa, we've got ourselves a 21% Echoes Shocked

.

Cheers, Sparky, this one's for you Wink

.

~Flamy

Thread title:

:shock:

Due mostly to Sparky's find of the Secret World in Hive Dynamo Access (I think that's what it's called) and... I've been told that Samus 3 and 4 and Quadraxis don't NEED the Echo Visor, I've bypassed the one echo door that leads to Quadraxis.  So as far as I can tell, [b]I'm on track to beating the game with no Echo Visor[/b]  :D .

First, jump off the "Ing Guy" and jump forwards, in the direction of Hive Gyro Chamber.  Then, on your right is a sticky section that you can bomb jump up.  Lay a bomb, and hold into the wall, and right before the bomb blows, release the control stick for maximum speed.  Once you get to the top, unmorph and you should be on the ceiling of the room.  
Walk your way back towards Hive Dyanmo Access and stand high up above the door.  From there, follow the curve of the room and run quickly towards Hive Gyro Chamber from the ceiling of the SW.  Once you get a few meters from the door, drop down in morph ball form and unmorph at about the right level which would land you on the floor of Hive Gyro Chamber.  The room will load around you, and once it does (you can tell since your power beam shots will smack into the walls), walk forward into the door and then walk backwards.  Hive Gyro Chamber will load around you  :D .  Overall, from the time you jump off the Ing Guy to the time you land in HGC, it's no more than thirty seconds if done well.  I lost between 30 and 40 energy, so it's definitely low-percent worthy.

Now, don't do this before you get Screw Attack and whatever you need to feel comfortable with fighting Quadraxis.  If you land in HGC without everything you need to kill Quaddy (like I just did... fresh out of Torvus  :roll: ) then you'll be stuck in HGC, since you can't go to fight Quaddy and get annihilator nor can you backtrack since the Echo door blocks your path.

Now all that's left for me to do is complete the game and make sure all of the Ing Caches still appear.  If that's the case, then laa-dee-daa, we've got ourselves a 21% Echoes  :shock: .

Cheers, Sparky, this one's for you  :wink: .

~[color=red]Flamy[/color]

KennyMan666

2004-12-24 09:18:28 am

Viking

Precursor

Flamy...

You are nuts! ^__^

Andrew Mills

2004-12-24 09:52:43 am

Strategy Guide Writer

Sweeeeeet! 8) Excellent work there Sparky! Twisted Evil

Very clever, yet oh so simple. :D I'll try and make a video of the full trick (entering SW until dorr warping back into the next room). If this DOES work for skipping a % tho, will Radix allow it in any recorded runs on SDA? Or will it be confined to runs stored only on Archives.org and SCU?

skynes

2004-12-24 10:08:23 am

I actually fought most of Quadraxis without the Echo Visor, until I realised you can lock onto his sensors with it (silly me). If I hadn't accidentally switched to it I would have fought him to the end with no visor.

Can you shoot the aerials on his head without the Echo visor?

Andrew Mills

2004-12-24 10:22:38 am

Strategy Guide Writer

Quote from skynes:

Can you shoot the aerials on his head without the Echo visor?

Yes, yes you can. First time I ever fought Quaddy, I never even THOUGHT of using the echo visor! Embarassed

Beat him by manual aiming at the atennas on his head. 8)

Frozen Mr. Toastbrot

2004-12-24 10:23:36 am

You can beat Quadraxis completely without Echo Visor. I never knew you could lock on his antennas with the Echo Visor until I read it somewhere here. That's why I fought him without Echo Visor playing through the game for the first time.

bushwacker

2004-12-24 04:33:54 pm

ownage

arkarian

2004-12-24 10:59:47 pm

red chamber dream

I didn't even know you could use the Echo Visor on him, to an advantage at least. I always shot at his antennas manually.

I think I'm going to try to beat the game now without the Echo Visor.

Yoshi348

2004-12-24 11:05:14 pm

PAGE BREAKER

Ready and willing.

That trick's probably harder than it looks...

Arrow

2004-12-24 11:13:33 pm

I think Radix should allow this. You barely even leave the room, you just walk on top of it. If he allows the sky-walking glitch in Half-Life and HL2, I see no reason why this shouldn't be allowed... it's virtually the same thing.

flamancipator

2004-12-24 11:59:04 pm

Alright everyone, I can take the "?" out of the topic because I have indeed beaten Dark Samus 4 (which was pretty tough with the inability to target her while she's invisible) and I've done it all without Echo Visor.

All nine keys appear, Quaddy is a piece o' cake even without Echo Visor, don't have to fight Samus in Aerie (maybe for speed runs?) And all in all, the main idea is that 21% is now possible.

So yay, long live the 21% run. Now, the next item up for skipping is Grapple Beam. Not surprisingly, if we find a secret world in Sanctuary Temple (not Ing Hive) then we will be able to skip Grapple Beam with a long wallcrawl to Vault.

Hooray! What a Christmas gift :D

~Flamy

Xoc

2004-12-25 02:30:53 am

Could it be possible? Not a 21% game, but the possibility that the M2K2 contingent will actually accept something involving "secret worlds" (obviously more of samus.co.uk's domain)? This could really be one of those hands-across-the-water peace offering holiday miracle things. Or not. We'll see.

kip

2004-12-25 02:58:51 am

Tell you what: I'll ask the M2K2 contingent and see what he thinks about this.

>.>

Trebor

2004-12-25 03:05:27 am

Peace offering?

For what?

Is there a feud going on here I don't know about?

Xoc

2004-12-25 03:47:32 am

It has always seemed that there's a subtle, underlying disdain for secret worlds in the M2K2 forums. Am I imagining this?

arkarian

2004-12-25 05:43:53 am

red chamber dream

Well, I've managed to beat Quadraxis (after staying up all night). Maybe I'll get around to beating Emp. Ing and DS today, but probably not (family stuff today).

Andrew Mills

2004-12-25 07:00:44 am

Strategy Guide Writer

Nice One Flamy! Twisted Evil

*V signs Retro's designers*

Good to see there's finally a % skippable. I think that Radix shoud allow them in a run he uploads to SDA simply because as other people have noted, they are used ABUNDENTLY in HL/HL2 speed runs. So why not in MP/MP2 too?

And I think that the "M2k2/SCU SW Feud" thing has somewhat dissapeared now (thankfully). The trick CAN be used in a proper 21% run anyways, it's just up to Radix if he then wants to post it on SDA or not.

Oh, and HAPPY FESTIVE SEASON PEOPLE! :D 8)

bartendorsparky

2004-12-25 09:23:01 am

always move fast

sweet

ShadowJedi

2004-12-25 11:12:41 am

A word of warning about a room near Caretaker drone...
I did the WSA dash (at last) and got to WS (didn't see that coming, eh?). I saw that Grand Abyss (or whatever it was called) didn't have the grapple points. Which was ok, I don't have the Grapple Beam.
I then went into the other door in WS that I could get to without Spider/SA. I fell to the bottom, picking up a missile expansion on the way. Exited and saw that I was in Caretaker Drone's room, and thinking I couldn't do anything in there I returned into the room I came from.

Now, to get up I needed to use the Kinetic Orb Cannon. It was locked, though, it was a sonic lock... I shot a bit around the room near the roof when disaster struck. The game went black, and the music stopped. I will never do that again.

Red Scarlet

2004-12-25 10:57:01 pm

I('d) like to watch (some MP3 runs)

I'm not Radix, but I remember him saying he didn't want to become like TG with exception rules for games, so I doubt he'd look the other way for a SW. And the HL things are different in some way; I'm sure he'll explain when he gets home and stuff...

DJGrenola

2004-12-25 11:19:10 pm

Nice job, you two. In particular I think Flamy's perseverance deserves a mention; spending hundreds of hours messing about in secret worlds for what historically has been minimal gain is a frustrating and thankless task, as I know from bitter experience.

flamancipator

2004-12-26 03:33:59 pm

DJ's got a point there, I betcha 95% of the junk I end up finding out won't get used at all. It's probably been close to a few hundred hours now and I've only done a few big things, but thanks for the flattery, DJ. My heart started to beat really fast and I got all warm and fuzzy as I was beating Dark Samus without the Echo Visor, I knew it was something big, and I felt so very proud to doing it :) . But don't just thank me, thank all of the hundreds of hours that lead up to my work, the people who devote their time to finding these blessed Secret Worlds 8) .

Now let's see if I can put to use the six hours of "Secret World Terminal Fall Mechanics" I spent an entire night on Rolling Eyes

.

~Flamy

bushwacker

2004-12-26 10:26:26 pm

Quote:

I'm not Radix, but I remember him saying he didn't want to become like TG with exception rules for games, so I doubt he'd look the other way for a SW.

I thought Radix had issues with teleporting. A SW doesn't teleport, it just... you know... makes you leave the room proper for a little bit :P [/i]

DJGrenola

2004-12-27 01:19:42 am

Well, the SDA rules are clear: you can't use a glitch to leave the normal level boundaries (although I'm sure I've read it somewhere else as having the qualifier "for any length of time" attached).

You can argue it various ways:

i) you can argue that as you're touching the wall of the level throughout the SW process (I assume from the description, anyway), you're still in contact with the level boundaries, so you haven't "left" them - you're just on the wrong side of them, a bit like walking on top of the level in a mario game, I guess.

ii) you can argue that 30 seconds isn't a significant length of time. (this argument sucks. :P)

iii) you can argue that it's no different from the dam trick in the half-life 1 run (I've not actually watched the HL2 run), where (IIRC) the player walks along the edge of the level boundary. IMO that's not really any different to what's being done here.

My personal opinion on this is that a literal interpretation of the rule means this break shouldn't be allowed. But IMO a literal interpretation of the rules wouldn't allow the half-life tricks, either.

When all's said and done, though, my opinion doesn't matter.

Well, the SDA rules are clear: you can't use a glitch to leave the normal level boundaries (although I'm sure I've read it somewhere else as having the qualifier "for any length of time" attached).

You can argue it various ways:

i) you can argue that as you're touching the wall of the level throughout the SW process (I assume from the description, anyway), you're still in contact with the level boundaries, so you haven't "left" them - you're just on the wrong side of them, a bit like walking on top of the level in a mario game, I guess.

ii) you can argue that 30 seconds isn't a significant length of time. (this argument sucks. :P)

iii) you can argue that it's no different from the dam trick in the half-life 1 run (I've not actually watched the HL2 run), where (IIRC) the player walks along the edge of the level boundary. IMO that's not really any different to what's being done here.

My personal opinion on this is that a literal interpretation of the rule means this break shouldn't be allowed. But IMO a literal interpretation of the rules wouldn't allow the half-life tricks, either.

When all's said and done, though, my opinion doesn't matter.

thedave316

2004-12-27 01:40:26 am

*stands up and applauds*

You guys are absolutely freakin' insane!!! I have been hoping that MP2 could be broken as much as MP1 and by golly its a-comin' along nicely. keep it up guys, you've definitely got fans out here.