MP Fastest Time Rankings and Sequence Breaking Discussion (v3.0)

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From: tlj9204 | Posted: 6/19/2003 10:40:23 PM

Well the old one got locked up cause it hit the 500 post limit (you expected otherwise?) Ah, such is life. Therefore, here's Version 3. I would take the time to recap everything, but frankly my head is spinning anyway, so here's the link to V2. Read and keep it coming!

http://s3.cgi.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessage.asp?board=32495&topic=8178335

In case it dies on you, the major discoveries in progress are the No Boost Ball run, perhaps the mythical "No Space Jump" run, cutting the game down to a certifiably insane 21%, and the time slashing Space Jump first (thanks to Devilbit), as well as a lotta other stuff ;)

-Tim

---
Site Admin, Metroid Online: http://metroid.retrofaction.com
Espernet IRC Channel: #metroid-online

From: Paratroopa1 | Posted: 6/19/2003 10:42:29 PM

BTW, the Sequence Breaking site can be found here:

http://membres.lycos.fr/zellmetroid

From: Videogaming | Posted: 6/19/2003 11:38:56 PM

Metroid Prime High Scores

Normal any%
1. kip 1:35 (34%)
2. CAL Foolio 1:39 (43%)
3. Radix37 1:52 (45%)
4. Andrew Mills 1:57 (40%) <<<PAL>>>
5.<<<PAL>>>

Hard any%
1. Gold Leader 1:58 (31%)
2. Radix37 2:04 (46%)
3. CAL Foolio 2:49 (100%)
4.<<<PAL>>>
5.<<<PAL>>>

Normal Low%
1. Radix37 2:37 (23%)
2. TreborSelbon 2:58 (23%)
3. gamecubeman27 4:34 (23%)
4.<<<PAL>>>
5.<<<PAL>>>

Hard Low%
1. kip 4:00 (24%)
2. Gold Leader 4:01 (26%)
3.
4.<<<PAL>>>
5.<<<PAL>>>

Normal 100%
1. CAL Foolio 2:19
2. Lazy Veysey 3:02
3. Urazz Izmine 3:17
4.<<<PAL>>>
5.<<<PAL>>>

Hard 100%
1. CAL Foolio 2:49
2. Varsis Erion 3:50
3. Gold Leader 4:05
4.<<<PAL>>>
5.<<<PAL>>>

Best Frigate Escape Times (Time remaining)
1. kip 4:22.05
2. CAL Foolio 4:20.65
3. zell99 4:15.39

From: Gray Fox 9996 | Posted: 6/20/2003 12:04:53 AM

Oh, and don't forget the Thermal Visor Glitch in your sequence breaking runs! For those of you who are fortunate enough to have not witnessed it yet, I'll describe it in one, simple sentence:

DO NOT GET THE THERMAL VISOR BEFORE THE SUPER MISSILES!
(or at least don't get the Thermal Visor without breaking the glass in Research Lab Aether)

Doing so will keep you from accessing the Control Tower, which may also prevent you from getting the Artifact of Elder. So just don't! Trust me.
---
"I am like you...I have no name." Gray Fox
If knowledge is power, and power corrupts, then absolute knowledge corrupts absolutely.

From: Varsis Erion | Posted: 6/20/2003 12:44:21 AM

Time to make an update on my "pointless, minor discoveries list". I previously mentioned Crossway Expansion without Super Missiles, but people missed it and asked questions, so here it is.

In the Crossway in the Ruins, you can get the Missile Expansion on your first pass in an early Ice Beam game, so as to save time. You don't need the Super Missiles or Boost Ball. If you go to the high side, there is a tall metal grate going up to the ceiling. You can SJ up it (try strafing into it) and reach the top of the room. Look across the way, and you will see three small broken pipes on the wall. Jump across to the highest one. From there, step forward and do a SJ up to the rafters. You will just BARELY make the jump, and be careful not to overshoot it. Then move across the rafters to the side of the room with the Missile Exp. Get onto the the rafter directly above it, then morph and drop down while holding forward. You should get it; this trick has worked every time for me.

From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 6/20/2003 5:27:22 AM

V3.0 eh..... sweet.

I will take a look at Geo Thermal w/o boost (in PAL) 2nite, to see what I can do (probably not much, but you never know...).

But Kip, any chance of giving me the links to the movies you have made for Geo w/o boost already? Would be great.

I will also see what happens if you get the Varia after the Phazon suit, to see how it glitches.

Andrew "MP Speed Monkey" Mills

From: gamecubeman27 | Posted: 6/20/2003 7:34:39 AM

can some1 please give me a link to an early sj video?

From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 6/20/2003 8:09:02 AM

Here you go:

http://www.samus.co.uk/movies/mprime/sj_first.mpg (NTSC)
http://www.samus.co.uk/movies/mprime/pal_sj_first.mpg (PAL)

That'll sort you out nicely...

Need exact tips on how to do it?

www.samus.co.uk/mprime/sj_first.shtml

Andrew "MP Speed Monkey" Mills

From: gamecubeman27 | Posted: 6/20/2003 8:59:35 AM

thanx Andrew i'll try when i get home later tonight.

From: kip | Posted: 6/20/2003 9:16:20 AM

i have something for people to do if anyone is interested: try to reach the top of observatory without scanning that one thing that powers up the bomb slots, and without using any of the bomb slots/spinners to make the ledges move out from the wall so that they're easier to land on.

if someone can do it, that would take care of the thermal glitch, seeing as how it's already possible to get the super missile without lowering the platform it rests on if you start at the top of the room, and how it's possible to jump across the gap to reach the door going to control tower without lowering the platform also. the problem is getting to the top of the room from the bottom.

From: kip | Posted: 6/20/2003 9:24:33 AM

about the geo video, i only made one so far that just shows how to reach the third spinner without raising the first and how to raise the third spinner without boost. i'd put it up temporarily but zanapher/cal isn't around; can you come by the channel or something? =[

From: illusionlithium | Posted: 6/20/2003 10:43:14 AM

I don't think this is anything, but it's good obstical practice. Goto Chozo Ruins on top of the bridge.... Step 1- Go on top of the bridge, on the right and stand on the log next to the little plant with red leaves. From there, lock your view on the mushroom below the cluttered mushroom in front of you. Run and space jump on top of the clustered mushroom. Looking towards the wall, lock you view and jump forward. You should land on the smaller mushroom over it.
Step 2- To the right, over the door, you should see a mushroom resembulling a target. To the right of it, a idenical one above a cluster of mushrooms. Lock your view on the highest orange spot you see on the cluster. Space jump on top of the cluster.
Step 3- To the right of that, there is a little mushroom. Jump on it and you see there is an invisible wall.

I was thinking it was possible to get another energy tank before magmoor but scratch that.
---
|��|��|__ |��|__ |��|��|��_|��|��_��|��\�|
|___|______|______|_____|�____|___|_____|_\___|

From: kip | Posted: 6/20/2003 10:50:50 AM

i updated mpd with info on the thermal glitch:

http://membres.lycos.fr/zellmetroid/glitchthermal.html

sorry it happened to you gray fox. if someone can get that thing with observatory i was talking about to work though, that would get rid of the glitch.

From: tfd | Posted: 6/20/2003 11:59:51 AM

Oh dear -- thermal visor glitch you say? I picked up the TV the other day, and haven't visited the Observatory in this run. I don't recall if I've been to Research Lab Aether, but nor do I remember a pirate breaking a glass wall. Oh well, perhaps a reason to try things over again!

Last last night I ended up going through the crashed frigate for the first time with boost but without the gravity suit. Mostly it was easy. The annoying parts: Getting a start on the Cargo Freight Lift -- jumping to the top of the shed with the energy tank at the bottom of the slope took a number of tries. From then on, I just bombed my way up a foot at a time in morph ball form, no problem. (The plasma beam was nice to have, to permanently toast the aqua reapers.) Then the Hydro Access Tunnel took about ten minutes of boosting experiments.

I tried to DBJ through the Great Tree Hall bars for about 15 minutes (from the normal side) without success. I got hung up a tad on the top bar a few times. I dunno about going over the bars from the frigate side. There is not much flat ledge area on the frigate side of the gate, is there?
---
-- Tom
http://mysite.verizon.net/~vze1oue7/id9.html (my ray tracing hobby)

From: Gray Fox 9996 | Posted: 6/20/2003 2:34:59 PM

Found something promising last night involving the spinner in Life Grove...

I was playing around in my Thermal Glitched save, and I went to get the X-Ray Visor in Life Grove, and thought to play around with it a bit without boost. I rolled in and tried Kyuenjin's trick of getting stuck in the spinner, but found I couldn't pull it off. So I bombed, rolled out (causing the dial to move out a bit), then rolled back in, and suddenly the dial went all the way around and the pillar with the Artifact popped out. It was really strange, all I did was bomb and roll out, then back in after getting maybe half a meter away, and it went (almost instantly) all the way around.

I did have grav, though, so this could be like the problem kip and Kyuenjin had with it where it only works with grav. Someone want to test it? I saved after pulling it off (d'oh @ me), so I can't try it again until I go through a new game. Also, if anyone could help look for a way to bypass the Thermal Visor Glitch by going through the observatory (I tried for maybe an hour last night, couldn't find any way up there...L-Lock space jumps didn't seem to make it high enough, and it's pretty far away from the wall to ghetto jump...maybe someone could find a combination of both?), I would much appreciate it - that no spider ball game would be great to finish ^_^.
---
"I am like you...I have no name." Gray Fox
If knowledge is power, and power corrupts, then absolute knowledge corrupts absolutely.

From: SkedarHunter | Posted: 6/20/2003 2:35:28 PM

Something I'm curious about on Sun Tower. You guys already told me how to do it w/o the Spider Ball, but in the video when you go back into the room before the Sun Tower, the Pulse Bombu is still there(no Chozo Ghost). Couldn't you just go two rooms away and then go back to the Sunchamber?
---
I'm the Alpha of your Omega...the beginning of your end. - Agent Smith, Enter the Matrix

From: Refreshment | Posted: 6/20/2003 3:10:13 PM

The pulse bombchu stays there even when you pull of the trick correctly.

You cant go two rooms away to refresh the sun chamber because one of the doors its covered by branches until you get the artifact of wild. So that only leaves the room where the pulse bomchu is and the tower.

Probably the trigger that makes the pulse bombchu disapear is when you scan all the simbols on the tower to open the gate that blocks the spiderball track.

From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 6/20/2003 3:21:42 PM

The trigger for the chozo ghosts in the suntower, is actually related to the distance down that you travel (current estimates is the big rock that's half way up the tower). Once you get down that low, the game thinks you've got up the normal way, and loads the ghosts into Flaahgra's lair.

But by moonjumping up the tower, you can never fight Flaahgra, as his flower just dissapears! Take a look for yourself...

www.samus.co.uk/images/mprime/artifact_b4_flaahgra_1.jpg

www.samus.co.uk/images/mprime/artifact_b4_flaahgra_2.jpg

www.samus.co.uk/images/mprime/artifact_b4_flaahgra_3.jpg

www.samus.co.uk/images/mprime/artifact_b4_flaahgra_4.jpg

www.samus.co.uk/images/mprime/artifact_b4_flaahgra_5.jpg

Even if you go back round the front straight afterwards, Flaahgra and his plant is NOWHERE to be found! Wierd huh?

Andrew "MP Moonjumping Monkey" mills

From: Refreshment | Posted: 6/20/2003 5:03:08 PM

Andrew, we are aware that the distance (in the Y axis) is the trigger for the ghosts in sunchamber. But nobody is talking about the ghosts, he asked about the pulse bombchu.

Possibly the trigger to make the pulse bomchu disapear is when the symbol gate gets open.

From: Gray Fox 9996 | Posted: 6/20/2003 6:44:17 PM

Wait, isn't it Pulse Bombu? Or maybe I need my eyes checked...

Anyway, I'm going to start another game, but I'm nowhere near the Life Grove without grav. If anyone could check that out for me I think we might get something from it (just hope it wasn't dumb luck that can't be recreated, and that it'll work without grav).
---
"I am like you...I have no name." Gray Fox
If knowledge is power, and power corrupts, then absolute knowledge corrupts absolutely

From: Paratroopa1 | Posted: 6/20/2003 7:33:36 PM

Yeah, it's "Pulse Bombu." I'm pretty sure "chu" is Japanese (I think?) for a rodent.
---
"I gets soooooooooooooo annoying!" ~ BlueWizard13
"I love to hear people praise me so please feel free to tell me how good I am." ~ jibtothemax

From: Varsis Erion | Posted: 6/20/2003 8:34:24 PM

Umm, it's definately Bombu. Bombchus are the running mouse-bombs in Zelda games.

From: kip | Posted: 6/21/2003 5:03:11 PM

i've been looking at geo in my no space jump game (now out of the mines with the power bomb and grapple), and i have come to the conclusion that having sj enhances your grapple ability somehow. let me explain my logic:

when i first started on geo a bit ago, i grappled to the first spinner (unraised) and easily made it, since the spinner is wider before it's raised. then i raised it and tried to bomb jump to the second spinner, but failed since the spinner isn't wide anymore and it becomes much harder to reach the second spinner.

after falling down i tried to get up by grappling back to the first spinner, but no matter how many times i tried/what kind of technique i used, i fell just short of it every time. after several failures i started to think that maybe having space jump enhances your grapple ability. this belief was reinforced when i mentioned it to banks and he commented that there's no way you couldn't get back to the first spinner, because in a normal sequence game retro must have foreseen that people might fall down somewhere after raising the first spinner, and they would need to be able to get back.

i've never seen people complain about being stuck this way, so i figured it had to be space jump; everyone has space jump when they're getting plasma, especially in a normal sequence game, and that must be the reason why. so i went and got space jump without saving, then easily made the grapple to the first spinner on my first try.

so not only does space jump enhance grapple ability, but it also extends the height/length of single jumps, which was something ama found many months ago when he and devilbit were figuring out how to get wave beam without space jump. i'm also thinking it might do something to your bomb jump ability, but i don't have a reason to fully believe that yet.

anyway, now that i know about this, i wonder if the fungal halls would actually cause a problem after all if i managed to get plasma and went there, since i'd need to grapple a pretty long distance in both rooms (sometimes you barely make it even with space jump). i'd take a look at those rooms, but i need to get plasma first, and i don't have any ideas on how to do it currently.

From: kip | Posted: 6/21/2003 5:12:08 PM

oh, also: i'm aware that the spinners reset back to their "unraised" positions if you leave the room and come back without either raising them all or lifting the ceiling by bombing the bomb slot.

when i came back with space jump to try this, i first raised the first spinner again, then fell down and went back to the grapple point to try it.

From: Radix37 | Posted: 6/21/2003 9:19:44 PM

I finally beat prime again for a better time in my 23%... I got 2:31. I can get 2:30 if I try more but I dont know if I will.

From: Amasawa | Posted: 6/21/2003 9:40:15 PM

I'm pretty sure "chu" is Japanese (I think?) for a rodent.

Close. When you're talking about mice, "chu" refers to squeaking (i.e. chuu-chuu naku, or to squeak). That sound can refer to other things though also, depending on the context -- smooching, for example. =]
---
Metroid E-Comic English script notes -- vol2.
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/amasawa/Metroid_E-Comic_EnglishScript.htm

From: Paratroopa1 | Posted: 6/22/2003 2:39:34 AM

Well, that takes care of the "chu" in "Pikachu" and "Bombchu", then. That's where my educated guess came from.
---
"I gets soooooooooooooo annoying!" ~ BlueWizard13
"I love to hear people praise me so please feel free to tell me how good I am." ~ jibtothemax

From: SkedarHunter | Posted: 6/22/2003 3:29:41 PM

YES!! I got the Artifact of Wild w/o the Spider Ball, and got past the Ruined Courtyard w/o the Boost Ball!

Now the next room I'm stuck on is the Observatory w/o the Boost Ball. I saw this one trick about going into a Spinner, bombing out, then going back in and having it almost instantly go the whole way around. I haven't tried it yet, but I will the next time I get back on the game.

I should be able to get past the Twin Fires Tunnel w/o the Gravity Suit and Spider Ball soon, since I got the extra Energy Tank from the Ruined Courtyard(and soon I'll[hopefully] get the one in Research Lab Aether...before anyone asks, I'm trying to see how many items I can skip while getting all the expansions and energy tanks).
---
I'm the Alpha of your Omega...the beginning of your end. - Agent Smith, Enter the Matrix

From: kip | Posted: 6/22/2003 4:32:27 PM

hmm interesting. you should be able to get 13 energy tanks, at least 175 missiles, and all the power bomb expansions that way. but if you find a way to get the training chamber energy tank without spider, please share. =P

From: SkedarHunter | Posted: 6/22/2003 8:11:57 PM

God, I'm on a roll today...got past Twin Fires Tunnel w/o Gravity Suit and Spider Ball, but now I'm stuck on Geothermal Core w/o the Boost Ball. I didn't decide to go any further after that(I wouldn't have been able to get the Plasma Beam anyway since I didn't have the Ice Beam).

Could someone please tell me how to get past Geothermal Core and Observatory without the Boost Ball? Thanks in advance.(the site doesn't say anything, but that's probably just because it isn't updated that often)

And kip...I don't know how to get past the Magma Pool w/o the Grapple Beam, so could someone fill me in on that too?(again, thanks) If I get to the Training Chamber w/o the Spider Ball(and Grapple Beam), I'll try and figure out how to get the energy tank there. Right now I'd like to focus on the Observatory(so I can get another energy tank, which will make Twin Fires Tunnel easier).
---
I'm the Alpha of your Omega...the beginning of your end. - Agent Smith, Enter the Matrix

From: kip | Posted: 6/22/2003 9:39:14 PM

to do magma pool without grapple and gravity suit you need to do a tbjm near the end of the pool, on the most elevated part of the ground you can find by there (but don't do it against a wall). since you don't have grav, the timing for the tbj may have to be slightly off to make sure you hit all the bombs; bomb jumping in low lava without the gravity suit is weird sometimes.

if you have the gravity suit you only have to do a space jump or dbjm, but considering the type of game you're doing it wouldn't make sense to get grav, because no item in the game requires it; no missile expansion or anything like that. so it'd be pointless to get it.

about observatory without boost, i don't know (the spinner trick didn't work there?). i'm not sure if anyone bothered to try it since you can ignore observatory by taking the twin fires path through magmoor instead.

and about geo, it has no solution right now, otherwise boost would be skippable. =P

From: Gray Fox 9996 | Posted: 6/22/2003 9:45:08 PM

and about geo, it has no solution right now, otherwise boost would be skippable. =P - kip

So that means you found the solution to the Life Grove spinner? Do tell, I'd love to hear it (err...read it). Also, what about the half pipe area on the way to/from the Power Bombs? Any solution to that yet so we can get a 22% game after Geo is solved?
---
"I am like you...I have no name." Gray Fox
If knowledge is power, and power corrupts, then absolute knowledge corrupts absolutely.

From: kip | Posted: 6/22/2003 9:53:11 PM

err sorry, i meant just skippable period, not for lower %.

problematic rooms to lower % with it are the same as before: geo, life grove without grav, ventilation shaft in the mines. the situation doesn't look as hopeless as lowering % by skipping space jump though. =P

From: SkedarHunter | Posted: 6/23/2003 3:18:15 PM

YES! I got past the Observatory w/o the Boost Ball! It wasn't the Spinner trick, either. Here's how...

When you enter the room(no need to initiate the projector sequence, I think), kill the Pirates, then jump across the platforms to the left of the entrance until you get to the platform that's too far away to space jump to. Now, turn back to the entrance, equip the Scan Visor, back up close to the wall and lock on to the orange projection to the right of the entrance(from where you're standing). Remember the early Space Jump trick?(dash jumping from the ship) We're gonna do that again, only this time we're gonna do a double dash jump. Do the first one, then release L and quickly jump again(not too quickly, or you'll miss it). If timed well enough, you should land on the platform. Space jump to the platform above you. Now for the gap between you and the purple doors.(save at this point if you want to) Go to the edge of the left-hand platform(from when you exit the save room), equip the Scan Visor again(if you turned it off after the first double dash jump), look down at the platform you did the first double dash jump from, and lock on to the Morph Ball slot. Do another double dash jump, and you should go past the piston-things and land on the ledge. Now you can proceed as usual. This also nullifies the Thermal Visor glitch(assuming you got the Ice Beam early, otherwise you'll still get stuck), since you can just go through the white door at the bottom of the Research Core, go to the Magmoor elevator through the Frozen Pike, go to the other Phendrana elevator, then go back through the research labs and get to the Control Tower for the Artifact of Elder.

As for Geothermal Core w/o Boost Ball, I'm still stuck on that.
---
I'm the Alpha of your Omega...the beginning of your end. - Agent Smith, Enter the Matrix

From: Gray Fox 9996 | Posted: 6/23/2003 7:18:07 PM

Well well well, I never even considered the dash jump for the Observatory...I never though you'd get high enough. Thanx a bunch for solving that Thermal Visor Glitch! Now I can finish my game! I'll go test it out right now and confirm your results. Oh and btw, the only way you can get the Thermal Visor Glitch is if you get the Ice Beam early (going through the ice door from Frozen Pike and picking up the Thermal Visor).

BTW, kip (or someone else...although it seems as though no one ever comes here anymore), did you check out my post about the spinner in Life Grove? That's probly the spinner trick you were referring to for Skedar Hunter in the Observatory, and I'm not sure if it'll work without Grav (like the problem you and Kyuenjin had with the trick he found), but I want to make sure we've got all possibilities tested on that.
---
"I am like you...I have no name." Gray Fox
If knowledge is power, and power corrupts, then absolute knowledge corrupts absolutely.

From: mario124124 | Posted: 6/23/2003 7:44:11 PM

if this is where i get to post my score than here it is

on normal i finished 73% in 17:43 it was my first time so go easy on the insults please.
---
"and one day Ed said...""It sounds like a babbling brook that makes me want to babble.""Up, there it goes... my brain stoped."

From: Ganondorf729 | Posted: 6/23/2003 7:53:05 PM

Is it possible to beat hard mode with 23%? if it is, how come no1 has done it yet? (cuz i added it to my metroid prime section of my records website, but i had to put 24% instead of 23%)
---
My Video Game Records Website...still in the making so there will be only a few scores
http://joesvgrecords.blogspot.com

From: kip | Posted: 6/23/2003 8:13:35 PM

hard 23% isn't really harder than 24% when it comes to the battles, since not having the spider ball doesn't really have an impact. trebor is doing one at the moment, i think he's about to fight omega pirate.

i started one too, then had to restart because of space jump first. i don't really want to do a hard 23% run now though, because it seems like boost might be skipped soon and that would make my run useless.

saw the post about the spinner thing, but couldn't get it to work without grav. that doesn't mean it doesn't work though, not at all; hopefully others will try it.

i'll see if i can get a vid of skedar's observatory method some time; thanks for the discovery man. afaik, the only game killing situations now are caused by leaving rooms with artifacts in them.

From: SkedarHunter | Posted: 6/23/2003 9:02:24 PM

Uh, kip, I have no idea how to make a video of the Observatory method, let alone put it on the internet. The only ways I know to record something on a game are a camcorder and a VCR. Even if I can record it on a VCR, how would I get it on the computer, let alone the internet?
---
I'm the Alpha of your Omega...the beginning of your end. - Agent Smith, Enter the Matrix

From: kip | Posted: 6/23/2003 9:15:07 PM

no, i mean i'll try to do it and make a vid for people. =P

From: SkedarHunter | Posted: 6/23/2003 9:59:58 PM

Thanks.

I had to get the Boost Ball so I could get the Plasma Beam, unfortunately. I'll try and skip the Spider Ball, though.

Another question: if it's possible to skip the Super Missile, how in the hell do you get the Chozo Artifact in Twin Fires?
---
I'm the Alpha of your Omega...the beginning of your end. - Agent Smith, Enter the Matrix

From: kip | Posted: 6/23/2003 10:09:35 PM

there isn't an artifact in twin fires, so i guess you mean lava lake. 2 missiles destroys the pillar, or 4 on hard (even though there's no visible indication you're damaging it, it'll break after you use 2/4 missiles if you hit the right part).

From: bobdole007 | Posted: 6/24/2003 4:51:09 PM

In a no spiderball game, has anyone found a way to get the energy tank in the Training Chamber (in Chozo Ruins)?

From: kip | Posted: 6/24/2003 4:59:57 PM

it's very easy to leave the place where the tank is after you get it, by just doing a dbj to get back into the hole and get out. but the problem is getting in the first time to where it is... afaik there isn't a way yet.

but hey, that would be 92% before thardus.

From: RockMFR 5 | Posted: 6/24/2003 8:32:38 PM

kip: I don't know if this is old news, but I think you were mentioned in this month's issue of EGM.

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=WW-100%==P9-DC==SMB-MASTER==MKSC-WR= o_0
Ohio State-31 miami-24

From: kip | Posted: 6/24/2003 8:45:55 PM

huh, why? some comments about how i must have a lot of time on my hands or something? =P

From: RockMFR 5 | Posted: 6/24/2003 10:54:01 PM

Oops! My bad! It was another MP player, and you won't like this:

Henry Wang of Berkeley, California broke the record for the fastest completion time in Metroid Prime on GameCube: One hour and 46 minutes!-Beat that!

Maybe you should call up EGM with the heartbreaking news :)

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=WW-100%==P9-DC==SMB-MASTER==MKSC-WR= o_0
Ohio State-31 miami-24

From: kip | Posted: 6/24/2003 10:59:39 PM

heh, i figured that's what it was. they spelled his name wrong too. =P

From: Videogaming | Posted: 6/24/2003 11:15:22 PM

"Henry Wang" is actually CAL Foolio. (Its actually Henru) And it was thanks to this topic that he got into EGM. Everyone repeat after me:

WE GOT INTO EGM!
WE GOT INTO EGM!
WE GOT INTO EGM!
WE GOT INTO EGM!
---
Opinions are like buttholes. Everyone has one.

From: CALFoolio | Posted: 6/24/2003 11:35:14 PM

Well, I'm pissed. Why the hell did they mispell my name. It's Henru not Henry.

---
Ikaruga- Arcade: 20,960,230 Prototype: 25,550,480

From: kip | Posted: 6/24/2003 11:38:44 PM

twingalaxies records are mentioned everywhere, so in some ways it's not surprising it got in the magazine. you'd think they could have taken the time to at least spell his name right though. =P

From: Kyuenjin | Posted: 6/24/2003 11:47:03 PM

Nothing more than a novelty, but a 101% game is probably possible. I get 2 missile packs and 2 percent off the missile launcher, so it should roll over 100. Anyway, here's the explanation.

Go to Hiva Mecha. Start the fight with Hive Mecha, then go out the door you came into the room with. I killed 2 bees before I left, though I don't know if that did anything. Anyway, go back to the save point closest, then save. I waited for the battle music to fade away, but yet again, I don't know if that matters.

After that, you should have 15 missiles max, and when you go back to the Hive Mecha room, Hive Mecha should be dead and you should be able to pick up the missile launcher for another 5 missiles, and another percent.

From: kip | Posted: 6/24/2003 11:51:40 PM

i finally got a third memory card so now i can continue my 1:29-1:31 run.

From: bobdole007 | Posted: 6/25/2003 2:16:20 AM

Ok cool, thanks for the info.

From: Zyphar | Posted: 6/25/2003 5:28:50 AM

Does anybody has any good tips for the l-lock dash jump thingie to get the space boots early.
I like watched the video like a million times and i still cannot do it, so i nead a little help here.
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From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 6/25/2003 6:18:09 AM

Go to my site that has a step by step guide to it for both NTSC and PAL:

www.samus.co.uk/mprime/sj_first.shtml

That should see you through ok =)

Andrew "MP Speed Monkey" Mills

From: Zyphar | Posted: 6/25/2003 6:41:48 AM

Oh yeah thanks dude (Nice work on the your site by the way).
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From: kenshi107 | Posted: 6/25/2003 10:01:52 AM

where's it mention CAL in EGM? what section?
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From: bluberry | Posted: 6/25/2003 11:55:43 AM

The bottom of one of the pages, somewhere around 30.
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From: RockMFR 5 | Posted: 6/25/2003 12:36:33 PM

101%?
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From: Videogaming | Posted: 6/25/2003 2:51:48 PM

Kyuen, so you mean, sj or dash jump to pick up the missile, then start the fight, then leave, then save, then go back, and the missile should respawn? Is that right?

I was screwing around on my non-sequence breaking game, and I got a LOT better at tbjs. I can do em maybe 1 in 3 or 4 tries now. Also, I got a lot better at dbjms, I even managed the ice temple without utilizing sj (though I had it). But one thing I found that might come in handy is that you can freeze those tentacle thingies (like in the arboretum and stuff) and then jump on them. This could prove useful if it works on aqua reapers, to help low%ers if they don't skip the frigate.
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From: njahnke | Posted: 6/25/2003 6:39:12 PM

Hey, just went all the way through the Mines from the back door (from Magmoor through the Phazon Processing), and I got to the cloaked drone in the Power Bomb room and killed it almost immediately with two Super Missiles, but the battle never ended - the Dynamo is still there and all the doors are locked except for the one out toward Metroid Containment. Going out to Metroid Containment (two doors away) doesn't reset the Central Dynamo room. I'd rather save before I try to go down to the third level without the X-ray visor, as I have only one tank left. :/
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www.protoman.com

From: njahnke | Posted: 6/25/2003 6:45:16 PM

Erm, NM, I went up to try to get through the entrance to the Dynamo and the security drone respawned. :P I almost got 'im, but died. Ah well. :P
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www.protoman.com

From: Kyuenjin | Posted: 6/25/2003 8:24:41 PM

Yeah, you might have to space jump or dash jump towards the missile pack. Alright, this is what happened.

I was trying to skip Hive Mecha, so I tried to Space Jump over the bridge, but I messed up somehow right after my second jump, and started the battle. Was a bit too lazy to fight Hive Mecha, so I just decided to leave the room, but I missed the jump to the door. Got back on the middle platform, saw a few bees were about to attack, killed two of them, and did the jump again. Made it that time, so I left the room. Energy was a bit low, so I decided to go back to the last save point to recover. Don't know if letting the battle music fade away did anything, but it was annoying so I let it die down before I saved, and after I saved I realized that I had a max of 15 missiles.

Thing here is that it didn't show I had 15 missiles, it's just that when I picked up some missiles on the way back to Hive Mecha I didn't max out at 10 anymore. I don't think you should be at max missiles when you fight Hive Mecha. Anyway, then I went back to Hive Mecha, and it was dead for some reason while the missile pack was still there. So, I picked it up.

From: SkedarHunter | Posted: 6/25/2003 9:27:48 PM

Argh...now I'm stuck on Metroid Quarantine A w/o Spider Ball. Someone tell me how, please? Thanks.

BTW, I don't have the X-Ray Visor yet, so if I can get past this and to the Omega Pirate, I'll see if there's a way to hurt him without it. I prolly won't be able to tonight, however; got a 9:30 meeting tomorrow at someplace in a town next to mine(about taking a class to get my driver's license...I would've done it when I turned 16 last November, but I'm lazy).
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I'm the Alpha of your Omega...the beginning of your end. - Agent Smith, Enter the Matrix

From: Radix37 | Posted: 6/25/2003 10:22:47 PM

For MQA you have to jump onto the bar across the top of the room, jump from where the missile expansion is. Freeze a metroid near the center of the bar, then from the top of the bar do a dash jump using the metroid. And you can't hurt OP without x-ray.

From: njahnke | Posted: 6/25/2003 10:40:05 PM

Hmmm, more trouble. I went through the Wrecked Ship backwards (coming out of the Mines going backwards) and got stuck at one of the earliest (last for me) doors you have to activate with the Wave Beam. This was especially shocking because I'd gone through almost the entire thing, inactive door after inactive door. :/

I couldn't seem to hit the power conduit through the door no matter what I tried, and I'm not sure that that was the only one for that door even if I could.
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Nate
www.protoman.com

From: kip | Posted: 6/25/2003 10:40:08 PM

well let him try. that'd be awesome if he found something, free %.

From: kip | Posted: 6/25/2003 10:44:17 PM

yeah, that's known. to go through it in reverse the entire way, you have to shoot that first conduit in the room with the 2 turrets, or else the door won't open for some reason (yet all the others do).

From: kip | Posted: 6/25/2003 10:52:20 PM

hmm that didn't make much sense: i mean that you need to enter the frigate from the front first and shoot that conduit, before trying to go through in reverse.

i don't think you can open the door from the back without doing that. but it'd be sweet if someone found a way.

From: Varsis Erion | Posted: 6/25/2003 11:13:52 PM

[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]

From: Varsis Erion | Posted: 6/25/2003 11:15:22 PM

Hmmm... sorry to sound like a whiner, but, Kip, could you tell me the solution to gravity chamber glitch? I think I found a way, but it's almost as hard to pull off as the old skool early SJ. On a more related note, regarding the possible 101% glitch, I have an AR, and it has a code to give you as many missiles as you can possibly have. Which, mysteriously, works out to be 255 like in M1. Curiouser and curiouser...

From: kip | Posted: 6/25/2003 11:42:40 PM

for the gravity chamber expansion, you have to get on a little ledge against the same wall as the wave beam door above the water, then get a slight running start and space jump to the expansion. in my experience you have to land in a very specific spot or she'll just slide off when she gets up there. i don't like it much because it's really inconsistent, unless there's something i'm missing.

an easier way to do it would be great. anyway, a vid of it can be found here if you wanna see it:

http://www.ens-lyon.fr/~vpoupet/metroid_prime/

From: Varsis Erion | Posted: 6/26/2003 12:03:33 AM

[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]

From: Varsis Erion | Posted: 6/26/2003 12:03:55 AM

Argh, that's the one I found meself... ah well. At least now I'm sure I wasn't hallucinating that one night it worked. Thanks, Kip.

From: Varsis Erion | Posted: 6/26/2003 12:06:09 AM

Did I mention that there's a glitch every time I post? Tonight's not my night...

From: jamescom1 | Posted: 6/26/2003 2:12:48 AM

So, how do you get up the Sunchamber for the Artifact of Wild?

From: kip | Posted: 6/26/2003 2:48:48 AM

immediately after beating flaahgra (you can't do it any other time), enter sun tower, jump down to the highest set of oculuses and get yourself stuck in the wall on the left. hold up-left, get hit by an oculus and begin bomb jumping back to the top ledge of sun tower, one bomb at a time. you can "infinite" jump this way, since the bombs refresh fast enough that you can go 1 bomb at a time, as long as you keep holding up-left. it slows your fall rate enough for this to be possible; each bomb is placed slightly after the previous explodes (but not progressively).

once you are at about the height of the top ledge or just a bit higher, place one last bomb, then move the stick from up-left to up/up-right and morph out right after it explodes. if you make it back to the top ledge, the ghosts in sunchamber will be there, due to how the trigger for their appearance works (took months and months to find it out).

a vid of it can also be found here (it's "sun tower wo spider", not "sun tower"):

http://www.ens-lyon.fr/~vpoupet/metroid_prime/

From: njahnke | Posted: 6/26/2003 3:32:39 AM

Dude, I've got to stop going backwards. :P

Heading back through the Mines to the start, I tried to go into Elite Research (from the top door), and wham, I'm stuck in the wall, you know, the one I didn't destroy with the big mining gun. :P

I can't seem to get back out, so I just keep bombing myself until I seem to go into the ceiling (probably not, but the camera angle changed to make it look like that)...after a while that seemed to stop working, so I started Boosting, and pretty soon, that sent me out right into the middle of Elite Research. Of course, I immediately laid a Power Bomb and set loose the Phazon Elite with all the other Pirates running about as well. Awesome! :>
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Nate
www.protoman.com

From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 6/26/2003 6:09:51 AM

Hi.

SKEDAR Hunter about Metroid Quarentine A:

You can use the metroid to make a dash jump or you can use this other way if you are on NTSC disk.

When you stand atop the big metal bar in the room, walk to its highest part and put your scan visor. What you want to do is L-lock to the missile expansion over there and make a dash jump.

To get the best angle for the jump, do this:
When you are at the highest part of the tube, you can see that from the wall comes two small metal plates that join the tube, walk (as much as it lets you) in the one metal plate that is closer to the ice door.
Fron here, rotate samus while the scan is on, in away that lets you align her with the platform. Think that most of the time the missile expansion ends in the left most size of the scan window.

Always remember that the second jump is the one that lets you do any adjustments to your position. You can take 4 maybe 5 tries if you are carefull with the scaning. Not sure if the scans (if not completed) can be refreshed.

With this way and the traditional way, you get more chances before having to refresh the room. Also you get like 6 chances before the room goes dark.

Hope it helps and thanks for the time.

From: Kyuenjin | Posted: 6/26/2003 6:16:22 AM

Think it was Devilbit that mentioned this, but I don't know if anyone had done it yet.

You can bomb over the spinner wall in the Great Tree Hall from the spinner side. I found a kind of easy way to do it, I think. Get on the ledge a balls length away from the left wall, set up up a double bomb jump, then tap back and left as you get propelled into the midair bomb, then hold forwards as you get hit by that one. Should send you clear over the wall with no hindrance.

Still no word on a 22% game though. :)

From: Videogaming | Posted: 6/26/2003 11:52:03 AM

Someone should try that 101% game...

Anyway, I was thinking...(99% probable completely useless idea alert!) that maybe you could get into those doors where it says "Need spacepirate biosigns. Access denied" Either go in when its opening for pirates, if you can somehow o_0, or try to lure an alive pirate at the door, and if Retro was feeling itchy, they might have programmed it to open for a huge easter egg. I seriously doubt it, but hey, if anyone wants to give it a try...
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From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 6/26/2003 1:01:52 PM

Yes Mr.Kyuenjin, mentioned that some time ago.

Good job, for making a confirmation.

From: Radix37 | Posted: 6/26/2003 8:55:40 PM

My latest accomplishment is a normal 100% in 2:10... thanks to a route from Cal. I couldn't quite pull off all the tricks or it would have been at least 5 minutes less. Maybe i'll try hard 100% next ;-)

From: Cypher19 | Posted: 6/26/2003 11:22:43 PM

"Which, mysteriously, works out to be 255"

Although I commend all your work, I must roll my eyes at the mysteriously.

255 is the limit for an 8-bit integer. In theory, if using the AR you somehow managed to increase that max by even 1, when you hit 256 missiles, the number would rollover in classic computer fashion and hit zero.
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Working on getting 100% in GT3, MGS2, FFX, SSB:M, and RL.
So many games, not enough time. :-D

From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 6/27/2003 9:21:24 AM

That exiting the Hive Mecha battle, then saving and going back in trick is quite funny. Worked a charm. Only useful in a 100% (speed) game perhaps?

Still sweet discovery. I see that Super Metroid has had another useful glitch discovered, 9 years after it's original release, so it looks like there could still be plenty of life left in MP to tear it's innards apart some more... ;)

Andrew "MP Speed Monkey" Mills

From: NotN00b | Posted: 6/27/2003 9:22:25 AM

"I see that Super Metroid has had another useful glitch discovered, 9 years after it's original release"

Which was...? I want to know =P
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From: Ganondorf729 | Posted: 6/27/2003 9:28:16 AM

could some1 please go here...

http://joesvgrecordsGCNmetroidprime.blogspot.com

and tell me if the music comes on, AND if the current records are right?

thank you :)

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My Video Game Records Website...still in the making so there will be only a few scores
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From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 6/27/2003 9:44:56 AM

Look here:

http://s1.cgi.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessage.asp?board=9418&topic=8708697

It's all in there.

Andrew "MP Speed Monkey" Mills

From: NotN00b | Posted: 6/27/2003 9:45:12 AM

Hey btw, Andrew, the last sequence breaking thing I was supposed to make you a banner, well Im not allowed to download .zip files. Could you please unzip it and give me URLs of the pictures?
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"After reading the harmful effects of Alcohol, I decided to stop reading." --My Friend XD!

From: NotN00b | Posted: 6/27/2003 9:48:32 AM

Nice glitch =D. BTW, Your webpage is doing great. if you need ANY help whatsoever, I'd be willing to help, Im decent with HTML owned and beat every metroid game (Stupidly sold Super x.x Looking to buy it back). Im also good with pictures o_o Nice secret place on your webpage too =P
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"After reading the harmful effects of Alcohol, I decided to stop reading." --My Friend XD!

From: bluberry | Posted: 6/27/2003 1:44:50 PM

In the Main Plaza on a SJ-first game, I can get the Boost-Ball Missile Pack and the Energy Tank pretty easily, but how can you get the MP you're supposed to grapple to? I tried Space Jumping and L-Lock/Release jumping, but I can never seem to reach it.... just miss by about 1 cm or less.....
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From: SkedarHunter | Posted: 6/27/2003 2:01:33 PM

Ergh...I think I encountered the Gravity Chamber glitch.(trying to do a normal 100% speed run, the last Missile Expansion I had to get was in the Gravity Chamber) I happened to go in through Chamber Access(with the Security Mecha) instead of the Lake Tunnel, and after I got the Gravity Suit(all this was done before Thardus...about the only things I didn't have before him were the Grapple Beam and X-Ray Visor; I would've gone to get the X-Ray Visor but I thought it would waste more time), I think that's what triggered it.

If this isn't the Gravity glitch, someone please tell me what it is?

I'll probably erase the file and start another 100% speed run later.(this time I'll try getting the X-Ray Visor before Thardus)
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I'm the Alpha of your Omega...the beginning of your end. - Agent Smith, Enter the Matrix

From: Varsis Erion | Posted: 6/28/2003 1:09:16 AM

I know that, Cypher. I still think that they would've put an engine cap on it if it wasn't possible that someday, someone might have 101%.

From: Gray Fox 9996 | Posted: 6/28/2003 1:29:35 AM

Skedar Hunter, let me personally thank you for finding the way up the Observatory after triggering the Thermal Visor Glitch. Much appreciated. Just pulled it off today, and now I've got my Artifact.

Now a question for kip: you mentioned that you had reached the Super Missile platform without lowering it (unless I read something in the last topic incorrectly), but the old topic has been deleted by now. Could you describe how you managed to get up there?
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"I am like you...I have no name." Gray Fox
If knowledge is power, and power corrupts, then absolute knowledge corrupts absolutely.

From: kip | Posted: 6/28/2003 1:41:53 AM

true, you can. i made a vid of it here (super missile in midair):

http://www.ens-lyon.fr/~vpoupet/metroid_prime/

there are more mistakes than usual because i was recording when i was figuring out how to do it, so at the time i didn't actually know if what i was doing would work. i can try to make a better one some day.

anyway, go to the door that leads to control tower, then look to your left/right (there should be lots of bars in one direction). walk near the end of the platform you're on, then tbj and morph out toward the horizontal bar as you try to land on it. the tbjm has to be just right or else she'll just slide off when you land on the bar.

once you land on it the rest is pretty easy. space jump to another horizontal bar that is closer to the super missile, then space jump directly to the super missile. watch as samus gets it in midair in the cutscene, then falls down to the bottom of the room. =P

From: Gray Fox 9996 | Posted: 6/28/2003 1:45:07 AM

Thanks for the tips, but is it easier getting up sun tower without the super missiles (and with the spider ball), or pulling off that trick?
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"I am like you...I have no name." Gray Fox
If knowledge is power, and power corrupts, then absolute knowledge corrupts absolutely.

From: kip | Posted: 6/28/2003 1:50:06 AM

hmm, i'd say this is a lot easier. there's no variation of the timing of the tbj like the old sun tower trick, but your landing on the first horizontal bar when you morph out has to be precise. after you land on the first bar you basically got it for free though.

plus, you can save at the save point in observatory, so if you end up falling to the bottom of the room, there's no need to do skedar's trick again just to get back to the top. just reload and space jump across the gap at the top to try again.

From: Gray Fox 9996 | Posted: 6/28/2003 2:15:47 AM

Yeah, I'll just brush up on my tbj skills and I'm sure I'll get it soon enough. Many thanks for the video.

Just checked if Research Lab Aether would be any different from the Control Tower side - seems the glass won't break either way. For those going for 100% scans (like myself), though, you can still get the pirate data in the upper room there, so long as you don't scan the Metroid container (which would effectively lock you in and force a restart).

No other problems encountered so far, but I'll make sure to finish this - after I pick up my super missiles (which I have to, lest I want to go through the Sun Tower's arduous triple bomb jump variant, because I forgot to get Artifact of Wild immediately after Flaahgra...d'oh) - and confirm the Thermal Visor Glitch has been bypassed.
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"I am like you...I have no name." Gray Fox
If knowledge is power, and power corrupts, then absolute knowledge corrupts absolutely.

From: njahnke | Posted: 6/28/2003 2:59:18 AM

I'm attempting a low percent game, and I was going to get the Artifact of Strength without the boost ball, but I wanted to try to figure out how to do it myself. Well, I couldn't make a jump from the Pirate workstation where the Spinner is (the "original" and "alternate" methods in that movie dir), so I came up with a really easy way to climb the wall right below where the path to the Artifact starts.

Start facing the door out to the Triclops Pit. Look to your left and you will see a sort of darker bit of rock sticking out to the left (down by the lava). Wedge yourself into the area between the dark rock on the left and the standard rock on the right and ghetto jump up to a ledge slightly to the left of your starting position. Try to let Samus "slide" a little bit up the rock before the space jump.

From the small ledge, face the rock wall in front of you, and ghetto jump up to the left again. This one doesn't have to be very precise at all. You'll land on a larger ledge just below the start of the path to the Artifact. Turn to the right so the rock wall fills your field of view again. Just ghetto jump one more time forward, and you'll easily clear the wall. Now there's just a short walk around the room to the Artifact!

Video here (this is my first time encoding DivX, so tell me if it sucks): http://www.protoman.com/strength_without_boost_(third_method).html
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Nate
www.protoman.com

From: kip | Posted: 6/28/2003 3:13:22 AM

hey, that's cool. i bet the dash jump method would work too even if you didn't have boost, so that probably means a total of 4 ways to get strength.

if it's ok, i can put you in the contributors list for this method and (eventually) get it documented on the site.

From: njahnke | Posted: 6/28/2003 3:26:34 AM

Sure thing. :)

I'll continue on. Not particularly looking forward to the Sun Tower...CRAP, is the only time you can do that right after FLAAAGHRAAA? Because I already went and got the Wave Beam. X_X
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Nate
www.protoman.com

From: Banks17 | Posted: 6/28/2003 3:29:22 AM

If you didn't get Artifact of Wild directly after killing flaahgra, then you need spider ball to do the tricky bomb jump up the shaft. Otherwise, you have to start over =(
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Half My Fun Is Ruining Yours.
http://metroid.retrofaction.com

From: njahnke | Posted: 6/28/2003 3:36:51 AM

Yeah, I really have something against Thardus. Okay. *restarts*
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Nate
www.protoman.com

From: kip | Posted: 6/28/2003 3:46:58 AM

yeah, you can only get artifact of wild without spider right after flaahgra. unless someone found a way to get to the spider block just above the "runic gate" without spider, starting from the bottom of the room. then you could just space jump to the top set of oculuses from there and do the rest like normal.

you could still get the artifact without charge beam/super missiles if you intend to skip those, but the method is pretty tough, it basically has to be mastered before you can pull it off (it's the vid simply called "sun tower" in that directory if you wanna see it). it's just one bomb jump but the bomb timing is unique for the situation.

doing sun tower without spider makes it unnecessary to use that without charge beam/super missile method though, since you're already doing it without those at the same time; by getting the artifact, you make it so that you never need to come back to sunchamber for anything, so the runic gate can stay closed.

From: njahnke | Posted: 6/28/2003 4:33:12 AM

Yeah, I definitely prefer hitting it after FLAAAAGHRAAAA. I'm so smart, I'll even leave some of the boxes for the way back before the Ghosts. I just failed to get up the Tower once (I kept screwing up the timing on the first bomb jump while getting mutilated by the Oculus) and I realized how much it would suck to get back up and then die at the Ghosts.

Welp, here we go again. Sup, FLAAAAGHHRAAAAAAAAAAA!
---
Nate
www.protoman.com

From: kip | Posted: 6/28/2003 4:41:53 AM

definitely agree with leaving some boxes there. that way no matter how long it takes you to get back to the top of sun tower, as long as you don't die to the oculus you're guaranteed to have full health for the ghosts.

even better if you can beat flaahgra without getting hit/taking very little damage.

From: njahnke | Posted: 6/28/2003 5:39:44 AM

Well, the trick is really evading me...this must have been trial 10 or so and I still can't get much more than two bomb jumps up the tower before I screw up the timing and fall back down to Oculus doom. I would come back with an energy tank or two, but that would sort of kill the point.

Yeah, felling FLAAAGHRAAAA without getting hit is becoming really familiar now... X_x

Whatever, I'm sure I'll do it tomorrow.

BTW, do we know how to get through the Wrecked Ship without the Boost Ball?
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Nate
www.protoman.com

From: kip | Posted: 6/28/2003 5:54:45 AM

hmm, the only room in the frigate where boost had to be used previously was hydro access tunnel (pretty much the last room). to get through the room without grav you had to boost.

getting through that room without both at the same time is something that was never figured out, because of the recent dbj over the bars trick in great tree hall. that allows you to skip the frigate even in low %, so not only do you not have to deal with getting through the frigate without grav (perfectly possible but can be annoying sometimes), it means there's no solution needed for hydro without grav and boost.

as a result, no boost making 22% looks much more hopeful. it'll likely happen if it's pushed hard enough... after that it's hard to see % going any lower, it would be pretty much at the point where the rest of the % is just forced items (kinda like why you need a few energy tanks in super metroid, whether you actually want them or not).

From: njahnke | Posted: 6/28/2003 6:09:09 AM

So that means the only thing holding us back from 22% is the ventilation shaft in the mines? Anyone for dash jumping over using a Puffer? :>
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Nate
www.protoman.com

From: Banks17 | Posted: 6/28/2003 6:22:15 AM

Nah, we also need to bypass geothermal core and life grove in addition to the ventilation shaft to get 22%.

In Geothermal core, you have to activate the bomb slot on the top spinner without being able to raise the spinners with boost. Your guess on how to achieve this is as good as mine.

In Life Grove you have to activate another spinner to raise the artifact out of the pond. The problem is, no gravity in water makes trying to raise it without boost highly ineffective. Once again, good luck with that as well.

So if you want to get famous quick (at least to MP junkies), get by these 3 rooms without boost ;)
---
Half My Fun Is Ruining Yours.
http://metroid.retrofaction.com

From: kip | Posted: 6/28/2003 6:22:40 AM

not just that room. geo core (to get plasma) is unsolved. and so is getting the artifact in life grove. it's possible to get it already actually, but you need grav to do it, and that's no good for 22% since grav is already a skipped item.

problem with geo is getting to the "bomb slot" at the top of the second spinner, so that you can bomb it and lift the ceiling. there are a few things known about geo: you can reach the third spinner (the one with the spider track) without raising the first, by doing a really good space jump from the second.

and also, for some reason you can easily raise the third spinner without boost, completely. imo, it's glitched. but if you try the same thing on the second spinner, it doesn't seem to work. geo would be instantly solved if a way was found to completely raise the second spinner; either that or somehow get in the bomb slot without raising it.

From: njahnke | Posted: 6/28/2003 6:28:29 AM

Oh yeah, right, I kept thinking PAL when I saw geo. Well, when I get through with the Artifact of Wild tomorrow I'll try to work on that. Just head over to Phendrana to pick up the Wave Beam and back to the Ruins to get the Ice Beam, getting the Artifact of Spirit on the way, I guess... ;)

I did try to nab the artifact (whichever one) in the Life Grove without boost in my previous game, to no avail. Maybe go into the floor or something...
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Nate
www.protoman.com

From: gamecubeman27 | Posted: 6/28/2003 7:34:58 AM

njahnke, i played it and all it was, was some small white print on the top of the screen for 17 seconds.

From: NotN00b | Posted: 6/28/2003 8:14:50 AM

How DO you do Sun Tower w/o spider ball? I was never told x.x
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"After reading the harmful effects of Alcohol, I decided to stop reading." --My Friend XD!

From: NotN00b | Posted: 6/28/2003 12:57:19 PM

Please, how do you get through sun tower w/o spider ball, and how do you get through Fungal Hall B w/o grapple.
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"After reading the harmful effects of Alcohol, I decided to stop reading." --My Friend XD!

From: Gray Fox 9996 | Posted: 6/28/2003 1:09:34 PM

Just about everything you'd ever need to know about sequence breaking can be found at Metroid Prime Discoveries:

http://membres.lycos.fr/zellmetroid/

For the Sun Tower w/out Spider Ball: immediately after fighting Flaahgra, you need to morph and fall along the right hand wall (on your right when coming from the door) and land on an Oculus, then, when you get stuck in the wall, you can do a well-timed series of bomb jumps to gain height. Once you're even with the ledge or above it, morph out of the last bomb jump in the direction of the ledge. Proceed back into the room where you just fought Flaahgra, and viola! The ghosts appear.

The video can be found here (sun_tower_wo_spider.avi - kudos to kip for the vid):

http://www.ens-lyon.fr/~vpoupet/metroid_prime/
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"I am like you...I have no name." Gray Fox
If knowledge is power, and power corrupts, then absolute knowledge corrupts absolutely.

From: Videogaming | Posted: 6/28/2003 2:44:09 PM

Meh. Good to see this topic is still rolling along. I'll update before it hits 300. Anyway, I can't get stuck in the wall for suntower. I hit the oculus, it brings me up a bit, then I hold up-left and bomb like crazy, but i never get stuck. And should I make sure I'm stuck before I bomb?

BTW, any plans to update the site? There's a ton of stuff that needs to be done.
---
Opinions are like buttholes. Everyone has one.

From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 6/28/2003 3:04:12 PM

Hello all.

For those who care I have made a few more new movies:

Crossway without boost: Yes, done already ages ago, but done it in my .mpg format.

http://www.samus.co.uk/movies/mprime/crossway_wo_boost.mpg (450k)

Made a good one showing you how to get the missile expansion in Crossway without using the boostball (a trick someone else mentioned on this board):

http://www.samus.co.uk/movies/mprime/crossway_exp_wo_boost.mpg (1.6 Megs)

And a very simple movie showing how to Space Jump to the Morphball without triggering off the fight. Sounds piss easy I know, but it can be a pain in the arse if you let yourself dip too low on the first jump, causing you to trigger the fight.

http://www.samus.co.uk/movies/mprime/mball_wo_fight.mpg (950k)

I've also managed to get to the artifact of strength by SJ'ing from the top of the panel that houses the spinner. Managed it first attempt. Might make a movie of that if anyone's interested.

I'm off to go clubbing now. Ladies deserve my attention. Later.

Andrew "MP Clubbing Monkey" Mills

From: Gray Fox 9996 | Posted: 6/28/2003 3:28:28 PM

Thank you for the new movies Andrew. I'm sure many here will appreciate them. BTW, you ever check out the Varia after Grav/Phazon Suit? Not like it's too important, but it might be interesting nonetheless.

Finally pulled off the tbjm up to the pipes in Observatory and picked up my Super Missiles, so now I'm off to finish the game and confirm the bypass of the Thermal Visor Glitch. Should have an update on that before the night is through.
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"I am like you...I have no name." Gray Fox
If knowledge is power, and power corrupts, then absolute knowledge corrupts absolutely.

From: Banks17 | Posted: 6/28/2003 4:23:02 PM

I've been trying to pull off a rolling TBJM inside the ventilation shaft in the phazon mines to skip that room needing boost but, believe me, it's going to be incredibly difficult if i can actually get the timing down.
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Half My Fun Is Ruining Yours.
http://metroid.retrofaction.com

From: njahnke | Posted: 6/28/2003 7:29:09 PM

I'm having way more trouble than I expected getting up the Tower. The timing is just insane (bomb jumping isn't exactly my strong suit), although I made it all the way up to the top and screwed up the very last bomb jump once. X_X

I'm going to just sacrifice a save and skip it for now and try to help you guys get to the Plasma Beam without the Boost Ball now.
---
Nate
www.protoman.com

From: Banks17 | Posted: 6/28/2003 7:50:26 PM

Are Kyuenjin and Andrew Mills playing MP on the PAL version? Because i dont get an extra 1% when doing the Hive Mecha trick on NTSC.
---
Half My Fun Is Ruining Yours.
http://metroid.retrofaction.com

From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 6/28/2003 8:31:25 PM

Banks17: Are Kyuenjin and Andrew Mills playing MP on the PAL version? Because i dont get an extra 1% when doing the Hive Mecha trick on NTSC

I'm certainly concentrating more on my PAL version than my NTSC copy at the minute. I have noticed this mysterious extra 5 missiles appearing in my total before (PAL). Never could assertain where exactly they came from. Haven't managed to get it deliberatly again tho =/ Even with the directions provided.

HOWEVER... I can confirm that in a 100% speed run, activating the Hive Mecha battle then opening the 2nd door away again, WILL allow you to skip fighting Hive Mecha completely allowing you to get the launcher and e-tank MUCH faster than fighting him. But, obviously, only useful in 100% speed runs.

Andrew "Slightly Drunk MP Speed Monkey" Mills

From: Banks17 | Posted: 6/28/2003 8:44:10 PM

If exiting and re-entering hive mecha getting the missile launcher the 2nd time is what causes the extra % to appear, then i assume it only works on PAL. I did everything exact and didn't get any extra missiles or %.
---
Half My Fun Is Ruining Yours.
http://metroid.retrofaction.com

From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 6/28/2003 8:56:09 PM

I'm not sure what it is exactly that causes the extra 5 missiles to appear, but I have seen this happen on several occasions.

You see, I have very rarely ever fought Hive Mecha, yet I have seen the extra 5 missiles appear from nowhere... so I think that Hive Mecha isn't the "trigger".

But then, I have been drinking alcohol, so maybe I could just be talking drunken rubbish. But then again...

Andrew "MP Clubbing Monkey" Mills

From: njahnke | Posted: 6/28/2003 9:09:28 PM

No luck on the spinners. I can get the platforms to start up pretty consistently (has to do with how Samus is oriented when she rolls in and the velocity she rolls in with) but so far no more than 50% raised in one try. I'm limited to one try because you have to get stuck in the spinner to raise the platform, and the game automatically resets the platform to the lowest position when you bomb out. It's actually really freaky, no animation or anything, it's just...there all of a sudden.

Going to try to climbing up now.

BTW, I can't seem to reach the top platform with space jumping...didn't someone say they could reach it by space jumping?
---
Nate
www.protoman.com

From: kip | Posted: 6/28/2003 9:18:50 PM

to reach spinner 3 from spinner 2, get on the inner "ring" around the middle of spinner 2. you can stand on it and it'll give you a height boost. get a slight running start and space jump off of the ring towards spinner 3. if the jump wasn't good you'll miss barely.

to raise spinner 3 without boost, just go inside and hold one of the down directions. one of them should make the spinner start going up when you hold in that direction. when you notice it, keep the stick held until the spinner is finished going up. if it never seems to start going up, bomb yourself out and just go back in and try again.

and also, after you're done raising it, react quickly and let go of down so that you don't roll into the lava.

From: SkedarHunter | Posted: 6/28/2003 9:21:12 PM

I'm attempting a low percent game, and I was going to get the Artifact of Strength without the boost ball, but I wanted to try to figure out how to do it myself. Well, I couldn't make a jump from the Pirate workstation where the Spinner is (the "original" and "alternate" methods in that movie dir), so I came up with a really easy way to climb the wall right below where the path to the Artifact starts.

Start facing the door out to the Triclops Pit. Look to your left and you will see a sort of darker bit of rock sticking out to the left (down by the lava). Wedge yourself into the area between the dark rock on the left and the standard rock on the right and ghetto jump up to a ledge slightly to the left of your starting position. Try to let Samus "slide" a little bit up the rock before the space jump.

From the small ledge, face the rock wall in front of you, and ghetto jump up to the left again. This one doesn't have to be very precise at all. You'll land on a larger ledge just below the start of the path to the Artifact. Turn to the right so the rock wall fills your field of view again. Just ghetto jump one more time forward, and you'll easily clear the wall. Now there's just a short walk around the room to the Artifact!

This might already be known, but I have another way to get the Artifact of Strength w/o Boost Ball. Jump on top of the computer screen above the Spinner(make sure it's the highest one), then activate the Scan Visor and look for the long crystal next to the door(or close to it) that leads you to the Phendrana elevator. Lock on to it(you're out of scanning range, which likely also means this is another NTSC-only method; besides, I don't have the PAL version) and do a double dash jump(like in the Observatory w/o Boost Ball strategy). If your positioning is good, you should land on the ledge which leads to the door. Holding back on the control stick helps move you more in the direction of the ledge.

From: njahnke | Posted: 6/28/2003 9:23:15 PM

Without L locking??
---
Nate
www.protoman.com

From: SkedarHunter | Posted: 6/28/2003 9:26:09 PM

Your thanks are appreciated, Gray Fox.

And when I got to the Training Chamber on my previous 100% speed run(had to erase because of the damn Gravity glitch >_<), I couldn't find a way to get the Energy Tank there w/o Boost or Spider Ball.

From: Gray Fox 9996 | Posted: 6/28/2003 9:34:18 PM

Uh oh, Gravity Glitch? Better hear about this one before I trigger it, too...Someone wanna let me know what not to do?
---
"I am like you...I have no name." Gray Fox
If knowledge is power, and power corrupts, then absolute knowledge corrupts absolutely.

From: kip | Posted: 6/28/2003 9:37:07 PM

the gravity chamber glitch makes it so that you can only get the missile expansion there by space jumping from a small ledge by the wave door (vid is on that site); it makes the grapple point not work anymore.

iirc, to trigger it you melt the ice on the grapple point with plasma and leave without getting the expansion. i'm not sure if the grapple point stops working even if you get the expansion, but it wouldn't matter then.

From: Gray Fox 9996 | Posted: 6/28/2003 10:53:17 PM

Oh, that doesn't sound so bad...and it seems the glitch is easily avoided & bypassed. So SkedarHunter, why would you have to restart your game after triggering it?
---
"I am like you...I have no name." Gray Fox
If knowledge is power, and power corrupts, then absolute knowledge corrupts absolutely.

From: njahnke | Posted: 6/28/2003 10:57:26 PM

Having the worst trouble with that space jump. When you say a running start, do you mean from the side of the second platform's upper part (i.e. not with the column to your back) or as close to the third platform as you can get (i.e. with the column to your back)? My closest is very close, but unless I'm missing something, I don't see myself doing it. Do you L-lock all the way down before the first jump and then sj at the height of that jump?

Also tried dash jumping but no luck there. Can't seem to get the angle right.
---
Nate
www.protoman.com

From: Kyuenjin | Posted: 6/29/2003 1:33:31 AM

For the person that asked, I am on the NTSC version of Metroid Prime.

From: Gray Fox 9996 | Posted: 6/29/2003 2:04:44 AM

Well, finished up the game, and I can now confirm that the Thermal Visor Glitch can be bypassed using SkedarHunter's (very tricky) dash jump method. Still make sure to avoid it, though, especially if you're going for 100% scans (like I was, until I realized I needed to activate the Observatory in order to get 2 of the scans...*sigh* all that work for nothing).
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"I am like you...I have no name." Gray Fox
If knowledge is power, and power corrupts, then absolute knowledge corrupts absolutely.

From: Banks17 | Posted: 6/29/2003 2:10:52 AM

Kyuenjin: Could you PLEASE give me a detailed step by step of what gave you the extra 5 missiles along with the extra 1% in your save file. Kip and i are very interested in seeing what would happen when you try to get 101% items.

I followed your previous post word for word and had no success in getting the extra 1%
---
Half My Fun Is Ruining Yours.
http://metroid.retrofaction.com

From: Kyuenjin | Posted: 6/29/2003 3:44:55 AM

Well, damn. I would go through it step by step and see if I could get the effect once again, but I let my friend borrow my NGC and all my games, so I can't test it at the moment. I'll just tell you exactly what happened after I went into the Hive Mecha room, and if you want to know anything that I did before that, I'll try to list that as well.

1 - Went onto the regular platform that you use to cross the bridge, except that I tried to Space Jump over it, but messed up somewhere around the second jump, and triggered the Hive Mecha battle.

2 - Tried to jump to the door that you come into the room from, but missed the jump and fell. Got back onto the platform, killed two bees, and then made the jump the second time.

3 - Went through the door, walked a ways away, turned around and shot the door to let it open, but didn't go through. Was kind of interested in what it would look like.

4 - Went to the last save point, let the boss battle music fade away, then saved.

5 - Went back to the Hive Mecha room. The water was down, Hive Mecha was dead, and the expansion was sitting where it is supposed to sit.

That's it. If that doesn't trigger the extra expansion, then I don't know what does. A few things I'm certain don't matter, like missing the jump the first time, but I'm beginning to think that opening the door again after exiting the room is important, as well as letting the boss battle music fade away.

From: Banks17 | Posted: 6/29/2003 3:47:55 AM

Did you have missile expansions before entering Hive Mecha?

Did you actually let the music fade away? or did you just enter the save room which in turn killed the music.

And you said you got the extra missiles from a refill on the way back to hive mecha after saving?
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Half My Fun Is Ruining Yours.
http://metroid.retrofaction.com

From: Kyuenjin | Posted: 6/29/2003 4:05:58 AM

1. Yes, I had the two missile expansions in the Main Plaza, I believe. After saving after the Hive Mecha "fight", I had 15, missiles, then I had 20 after picking up the missile launcher.

2. Yes, as you enter the save room the music starts to fade away, and I let it fade completely away before I saved.

3. This one is a little hard to answer. I think I didn't have full missiles, because I remember picking up a missile refill and being surprised at my extra carrying capacity. So, I believe I didn't have full missiles, but I picked up more on the way back to Hive Mecha, which put me over what should have been my max of 10 missiles.

From: njahnke | Posted: 6/29/2003 4:33:59 AM

Browsing the site, I noticed kip got credited with getting the frigate crash site missile expansion without gravity, and I was wondering what the method is?

I ask because earlier I was screwing around and I managed to accidentally fall right into the expansion from the tunnel exit from the Chozo Ruins (without gravity). I'm sure I could do it again, this time saving the sj for the end to help control the fall.

And BTW - Artifact of Newborn before Phazon Suit?? Could someone fill me in on that? I've got this personal contest thing with my old roommate about that, and I was starting to think I'd only see it in my dreams... :P
---
Nate
www.protoman.com

From: Kyuenjin | Posted: 6/29/2003 4:40:38 AM

To get the Artifact of Newborn without the Phazon Suit, I think you break a block, then go back to the nearest save point, and save to replenish health, then go back and break another block.

Rooms only regenerate if you go two rooms away, so as long as you don't pass the save point, the room shouldn't reset the blocks. Pretty sure you need a lot of energy tanks for this though.

Btw, this is information I got from reading about it a long time ago. Not sure if what I said is exact, but you can try it out.

From: njahnke | Posted: 6/29/2003 4:55:41 AM

Looking at the world map real quick, I see that there are no save rooms within two rooms of the Artifact, which means there's only one way to get it early - you'll have to refresh the best candidate room by going two rooms away from it (still one room away from the Artifact) and then killing Metroids for health. Ouch. I was well on my way to attempting this last April but I sort of got tired of doing it halfway through.

Alright, thanks, just wondering if anyone'd come up with a lightning fast hyper pwning method.
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Nate
www.protoman.com

From: Kyuenjin | Posted: 6/29/2003 4:59:00 AM

Ah, thanks. I knew I had something wrong with what I said, but I wasn't exactly sure on what.

---
"The cruel angels thesis bleeds."

From: NotN00b | Posted: 6/29/2003 9:38:09 AM

Can I see a video of how to do sun tower w/o spider? In MPG format if possible. Also, what about Fungall Hall B w/o grapple?
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"After reading the harmful effects of Alcohol, I decided to stop reading." --My Friend XD!

From: Pogo708 | Posted: 6/29/2003 11:18:07 AM

Ok, so can someone give me a list of the 23 items that are required? I want to try and help figure out how to skip the boost ball...
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"I could kill you right now with two tea bags and some wax paper." "How?" "If I told you I'd have to kill you"

From: gamecubeman27 | Posted: 6/29/2003 11:35:54 AM

here you go, Pogo,

12 artifacts
4 beams
1 varia suit
1 phazon suit
1 missile exp.
1 space jump
1 power bomb
1 ball bombs
1 boost ball
= 23 items

From: gamecubeman27 | Posted: 6/29/2003 11:42:07 AM

i just improved my 23% from 4:34 down to 2:29

so... normal 23% 2:29

From: illusionlithium | Posted: 6/29/2003 12:27:51 PM

It is highly possible to get 3+ missile expansion before Hive Mecha.... Case closed.
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|___|______|______|_____|�____|___|_____|_\___|

From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 6/29/2003 12:49:01 PM

NotN00b: Can I see a video of how to do sun tower w/o spider? In MPG format if possible.

Of course you can my good man. Always happy to help =)

http://www.samus.co.uk/movies/mprime/suntower_wo_sball.mpg (2.4 Megs)

I'll see if I can work out the "trigger" for the 5 extra missiles "for free".

Also, I havea theory for Geo without boost. Needs testing tho. Is it possible to "hold" the lock on to one of the puddle spores that are below you?, In turn giving you the freedom to dash jump then use SJ to get enough height to fall into the bomb slot. Meaning a solution to both NTSC and PAL in one swoop (as scan dashing insn't possible in PAL).

Andrew "Hungover MP Speed Monkey" Mills

From: Gray Fox 9996 | Posted: 6/29/2003 1:12:20 PM

[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]

From: illusionlithium | Posted: 6/29/2003 1:22:34 PM

You mean Geothermic Core? What's so hard to get through that w/o boost?
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|___|______|______|_____|�____|___|_____|_\___|

From: Gray Fox 9996 | Posted: 6/29/2003 1:24:14 PM

[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]

From: Gray Fox 9996 | Posted: 6/29/2003 1:25:32 PM

illusionlithium: It's possible to beat the whole game without ever fighting the Hive Mecha...so technically you could get every missile expansion in the game before actually getting the launcher. And Geothermal Core requires boost for the spinners, in order to raise the platforms.

To anyone who might be updating Metroid Prime Discoveries (most likely kip): A note should be added about the bypass of the Thermal Visor Glitch (thanks to SkedarHunter's dash jump), so people can know that there's a way around it.
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"I am like you...I have no name." Gray Fox
If knowledge is power, and power corrupts, then absolute knowledge corrupts absolutely.

From: illusionlithium | Posted: 6/29/2003 1:57:00 PM

So isn't it possible that he made a mistake counting the missle expansions. That was my point. Also in the Geo can't you go to the spinners, and get on the edge of them a hold right or left? You will spin very fast in your place. Oh and Andrew, im not sure I remember in puddle spores in the Geo. I know there is one in the North or South tunnel though.
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|��|��|__ |��|__ |��|��|��_|��|��_��|��\�|
|___|______|______|_____|�____|___|_____|_\___|

From: illusionlithium | Posted: 6/29/2003 2:03:22 PM

Oh also I found this interesting, but probably not useful, technique for getting across some gaps. Example, on the platform in the landing site, the one near the water fall that is the first one in those stairs, get into the morph ball. Try to get across it w/o using bombs. No use. But if you boost and morph when you hit the edge you jump/hover over the gap. It's more fun than useful.
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|��|��|__ |��|__ |��|��|��_|��|��_��|��\�|
|___|______|______|_____|�____|___|_____|_\___|

From: Pogo708 | Posted: 6/29/2003 2:35:38 PM

Thanks for the list!
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"I could kill you right now with two tea bags and some wax paper." "How?" "If I told you I'd have to kill you"

From: Pogo708 | Posted: 6/29/2003 2:57:43 PM

Hey Andrew...
On the Sun Tower w/o Spider Ball MPG, you started out at the top. How would you do that from the bottom?
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"I could kill you right now with two tea bags and some wax paper." "How?" "If I told you I'd have to kill you"

From: Green Mamba | Posted: 6/29/2003 3:03:25 PM

You can't. It has to be done from the top, right after beating Flaaghra
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It'll be like Ghandi, except everyone's dancing!
TIME BOMB SET. GET OUT FAST!

From: Banks17 | Posted: 6/29/2003 3:09:35 PM

If you want to go from the bottom, you need the spider ball upgrade. It's much easier just to do it after flaahgra.
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Half My Fun Is Ruining Yours.
http://metroid.retrofaction.com

From: Pogo708 | Posted: 6/29/2003 3:20:03 PM

I'm sorry for asking such a stupid question, but then what's the point in doing that? He just fell, and bomb jumped back up. It was definitly cool looking, but...
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"I could kill you right now with two tea bags and some wax paper." "How?" "If I told you I'd have to kill you"

From: zell99 | Posted: 6/29/2003 3:36:48 PM

Pogo- That is used to skip the SpiderBall. After you beat Flaahgra, you need to go down a little in the SunTower for the Chozo Fight to be triggered. If you jump down as he did in the video, it is low enough to trigger it. So you jump down and bomb back up, then go back where Flaahgra was and the fight for the Artifact will be triggered, that way you can get this artifact without the spiderball =)
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Y'all [...] make sure it's popin' when we get up there... -Tupac

From: Zanapher | Posted: 6/29/2003 3:52:10 PM

Uh, the list given by gamecubeman27 is missing the morph ball. It still only makes 23% because the Phazon Suit doesn't add percent.

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Nostalgia isn't what it used to be...

From: Pogo708 | Posted: 6/29/2003 3:56:12 PM

Oh ok. Thanks!
---
"I could kill you right now with two tea bags and some wax paper." "How?" "If I told you I'd have to kill you"

From: njahnke | Posted: 6/29/2003 4:40:02 PM

Andrew's theory is interesting, but I was dash jumping with the Spores yesterday and it looks to me like we're not going to be able to get a good enough angle to get up to the slot. The spores are sort of on a different plane than platforms two and three, so that you go flying toward either door instead of toward the center of the platforms. Actually, so I don't have to go all the way through to geo again, on which platform is the ball slot? I've seen both two and three here. If the slot is on two and I can actually get up to three today, I can try locking onto the other puddle spore (the one you can't use from two) to get up to the slot, but a mid-air morph...augh. I guess if that's what it takes...

One other thing I forgot to mention yesterday, that I managed to land on the third platform, but on a much lower level, i.e. I was standing on the lava, with no apparent reason why I wasn't taking damage. I tried to ghetto jump up to the third platform, but I was nowhere near the bottom of the platform. I didn't figure morphing would help anything, so I just disappointedly dumped myself into the lava and headed back to the far side of the room to try getting to platform three again.

One more thing, I had moderate success climbing up the wall by where you're supposed to start grappling, but I hit a dead end long before I could sj to a platform/bomb slot. Actually, the wall looks very promising by the third platform, if I could just get up there. :P
---
Nate
www.protoman.com

From: NotN00b | Posted: 6/29/2003 5:07:51 PM

Thanks for the vid Andrew. I thought I was doing it right, but for some reason I run out at a point, and I cant do it, oh well, more work.
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"After reading the harmful effects of Alcohol, I decided to stop reading." --My Friend XD!

From: Refreshment | Posted: 6/29/2003 5:09:17 PM

I have a question about the sun tower no spider ball video that was posted some messages ago.

Thats the same video that is at Zanapher's site but is encoded using quicktime. Whats the purpose of that? Why not link to the site where the original video is?

If you have DIVX 5.03 and up everything works fine.

From: NotN00b | Posted: 6/29/2003 5:22:40 PM

Im not allowed to download DivX. so Andrew is constantly doing me favors =D.
---
"After reading the harmful effects of Alcohol, I decided to stop reading." --My Friend XD!

From: Refreshment | Posted: 6/29/2003 5:44:52 PM

Well sorry, i didnt know that.

But if hes using somebody else's video maybe he should point out where the original source is.

Im not making a deal out of this, is just that if i didnt know better i could think that he made the video.

BTW, i said "maybe", because i dont know if he got previous authorization from the person who made the video.

Sorry again.

From: SkedarHunter | Posted: 6/29/2003 7:07:08 PM

I erased the game because I was doing a 100% speed run, not a 98% speed run. I know, it doesn'tmake a lot of sense, but oh well. My game, my choice.

I figured out the Spinner trick(going in then holding down on the stick). I've only gotten it to work with two Spinners: the one on the third Spinner platform in Geothermal Core and the one in Life Grove(had the Gravity Suit, though). Maybe on my next game I'll see if I can get it to work in Life Grove w/o Gravity.

From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 6/29/2003 8:29:59 PM

Refreshment: But if hes using somebody else's video maybe he should point out where the original source is.

Im not making a deal out of this, is just that if i didnt know better i could think that he made the video.

BTW, i said "maybe", because i dont know if he got previous authorization from the person who made the video.

You have a point... to an extent.

I never did ask for permission to re-encode the original video into .mpg format and just post it, yet, I never ever claimed it as my own. MY movies have www.samus.co.uk in the bottom left corner. I have never done that to movies which I never personally made.

So while I never asked for permission (to which maybe I should have, or at least credited, for which I apologise), I never claimed personal credit for them.

Andrew "www.samus.co.uk" Mills

From: njahnke | Posted: 6/29/2003 11:12:48 PM

Not much goods news tonight. I pretty much mastered the sj up to the third platform (thanks to recording when I do it successfully and listening to the sj timing), but I am extremely doubtful that sjing over to the bomb slot is going to work, for the reason that Samus must be 100% balled in order to fit into a slot. To see this, just sj above one of the Spinners and then morph, and you'll see yourself fall to the ground while changing into a ball, and when the transformation is complete, get sucked into the wall.

I can get enough height to begin the transformation above the bomb slot, but certainly not to finish it. I looked into other ways of reaching the slot, like those yellow phallic light things sticking out from the tops of the columns. Unfortunately, those are not "real" objects, much like the smaller, white lights found sticking out of the ground in Magmoor are not. I made a video to demonstrate this, but it'll take me a little while to get it uploaded. I can see no way to get on top of the top of the third column.

Unfortunately, the Spores are too close to get "out of scanning range" unless you are at the height of a sj, and that doesn't give enough time to dash jump in my experience. Also, I doubt Samus would be in the right place at any time during the dash jump, due to the angle required to scan the spores in the first place. One spore looks impossible and the other looks doubtful at this stage.

I'm going to try messing with the rock formations in the wall, but I'm not hopeful.

I wish I had something more productive to report.
---
Nate
www.protoman.com

From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 6/30/2003 4:16:05 AM

Hmmm, I'm pretty sure that there's a way to do it, but you're right about the yellow poles, in that they're not solid at all.

Mind you, when I floated around them in morphball mode (using my trusty MoonJump) if I pass through them from below you're given a MASSIVE auto boost.

So, if you float up in a ball to them from below, when you pass in between two yellow poles, you just do a mad boost. Pointless, but funny (at the time).

I have a feeling that we're going to have to find a new or old exploitable glitch in order to do this. I'll see what else my funky MoonJump can uncover.

I'm interested in finding a solution that'll work on both versions (seeing as I primarily play my PAL copy over my NTSC copy of MP).

Andrew "Bored at Work MP Speed Monkey" Mills

From: njahnke | Posted: 6/30/2003 5:26:37 AM

Is your moon jump an AR code or some glitch I'm unaware of?

BTW, for all interested: I just posted a supremely awesome Super Metroid soundtrack on my site (see sig). Look under Other Games in the Music section.
---
Nate
www.protoman.com

From: LLCoolDave | Posted: 6/30/2003 5:37:19 AM

Well, about that Soundtrack, it's pretty pointless to put up a 6MB large Norfair Ancient Ruins MP3(It's the only one I checked) if it is 100% the same as the .spc, which is only 65KB, and also legal. You're just wasting space and bandwidth, of both you and the ones interested in the tracks. In general, SNES Soundtracks should be in .spc ^^
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"I've won several tournaments with the target, but I've never won with Sandbag. So sandbag is the worst." ~ r1k

From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 6/30/2003 5:54:39 AM

I actually plan on supplying those Metroid, Metroid 2 and SM soundtracks in their respective formats (e.g. .spc) with the appropriate player that plays all 3 (Meridan player at my last check), on my www.samus.co.uk website.

Just needing to get permission from the original rippers first and the program's author before I supply the link.

But ARE .spc's (etc) legal tho?

Oh, and with regards to my MoonJumping ability, I use an Action Replay 2 to do that. Can be very handy in messing around with the game, sometimes for useful benefits =)

Andrew "MP Speed Monkey" Mills

From: LLCoolDave | Posted: 6/30/2003 5:56:19 AM

afaik, .spcs are legal, although they're counted as roms.
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"I've won several tournaments with the target, but I've never won with Sandbag. So sandbag is the worst." ~ r1k

From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 6/30/2003 6:15:16 AM

So would I be expecting a legal e-mail from Nintendo then if I supply them for downloading on my site (with the correct player for all 3 formats)?

Or would I be safe enough?

Andrew "MP Speed Monkey" Mills

From: TemplarofNI | Posted: 6/30/2003 10:09:13 AM

is there any easy way of getting to geothermal core (for plasma beam early) without going through the space pirate base? i was playing normally until after i got the termal visor, and the shadow pirates are annoying....
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I am the Templar of Ni! Bring me a shrubbery!!!

From: NotN00b | Posted: 6/30/2003 10:52:52 AM

Andrew, may I see a vid of fungall hall B w/o grapple?
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"After reading the harmful effects of Alcohol, I decided to stop reading." --My Friend XD!

From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 6/30/2003 11:00:21 AM

TemplarofNI: Is there any easy way of getting to geothermal core (for plasma beam early) without going through the space pirate base?

Yea, there is, but it requires the use of a trick to do.

And all the info can be found here:

http://membres.lycos.fr/zellmetroid/sb-twinfires.html

Andrew "MP Speed Monkey" Mills

From: NotN00b | Posted: 6/30/2003 11:28:45 AM

No vid andrew? I guess I'll wait for the explanation at the Prime discoveries site.
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"After reading the harmful effects of Alcohol, I decided to stop reading." --My Friend XD!

From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 6/30/2003 11:36:43 AM

Yea, I have a video available. Just no lin kto it yet as I'm in work right now. Will supply the link in a few hours.

Andrew "Mp Speed Monkey" Mills

From: gamecubeman27 | Posted: 6/30/2003 11:59:04 AM

i think i found another secret world. i was moonjumping around the landing site and i fell into this place under everything else and i couldn't get out. and one more thing i moonjumped up the sun tower (didn't fight Flaggra(sp?)) and the pluse bombmu was there. i got the aritfact, went back down the suntower. i then went back up and the gost was there.

From: Valdek | Posted: 6/30/2003 12:02:50 PM

Hmm... I was in a room with a missile expansion surrounded by some sort of four walled cage, each wall with circular patterns on it... one of the walls has three yellow circles. Well, I went into morphball and rolled into the topmost one... now it just shows a little steam coming out, but I can't move or get out, and nothing is happened... so, I'm stuck.

Is there any way to get out of the wall?

Thanks.

---
"Peace is a gift of the grave and only found in the silence of the tomb."

From: Valdek | Posted: 6/30/2003 12:11:46 PM

Well, nevermind. I went and got the morphball bomb, and set one off inside the yellow slot. I guess if you get in before you have the bombs, you're stuck... well, is there any way out if you don't have the bombs?

---
"Peace is a gift of the grave and only found in the silence of the tomb."

From: Radix37 | Posted: 6/30/2003 2:40:49 PM

I'm curious about this 2:29 for 23%... was that skipping the frigate?

From: Kyuenjin | Posted: 6/30/2003 5:30:53 PM

Alright, I don't have the PAL version, but if this works in
PAL, then it should help out a little bit for people who can't TBJ up the Furnace Track.

What you want to do is aim where the end of the right side of the track and the wall meets. L-Lock your view, Space Jump there, and you'll (luckily) land on an invisible ledge on the wall. From there you can jump onto the top of the track. The jump is kind of like the jump for the plasma beam, though. Have to jump backwards, left, and then forwards. Pretty much like a V.

Btw, getting on the ledge is a lot of luck. Had my friend try it out, and he got it in 3 tries, then 2, but now he can't do it.

Anyway, just to help out those poor souls (like myself) who can't TBJ to save their lives. :P

---
"The cruel angels thesis bleeds."

From: NotN00b | Posted: 6/30/2003 5:59:44 PM

Kyuenjin: That was posted early, about 1 month ago as I recall, but nobody took notice to it. Also, I can TBJ very well, but I never seem to make it up to the top of sun tower w/o spider. How could you do the opposite? O_O
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"After reading the harmful effects of Alcohol, I decided to stop reading." --My Friend XD!

From: Kyuenjin | Posted: 6/30/2003 6:12:04 PM

Well, it doesn't require TBJing to make it up the Sun Tower without Spider Ball, so I guess that's why I can do it. :P

It's more like infinite bomb jumping from Super Metroid, I guess.

---
"The cruel angels thesis bleeds."

From: njahnke | Posted: 6/30/2003 7:01:35 PM

Andrew, you should try moonjumping to the top of column two and then shutting off the moonjump and morphing at the same time to see if gravity will kill the attempt to get sucked in by the bomb slot. If it does, we know we're pretty much screwed unless we can get some platform below the slot.

And BTW, if I wanted a reproduction of the Super Metroid soundtrack, I would have posted freely available .spcs on my site. I prefer to listen to the music as it was intended to be heard, from what we used to call a game console.
---
Nate
www.protoman.com

From: Kyuenjin | Posted: 6/30/2003 7:48:02 PM

That reminds me. There is a ledge you can land on some distance below the bomb slot - I forgot to mention it when I found it a while ago.

I was trying to Space Jump and morph in the slot, but I fell down the pillar in front of the bomb slot instead, and landed on a ledge in morph ball form. Wasn't paying attention though, so I fell off. Don't know if it was close enough to the spinner to bomb up, but I guess it's worth a try.

Further attempts to land on the ledge failed, btw. So I'm thinking it was just luck, which is probably why I didn't ever mention it.
---
"The cruel angels thesis bleeds."

From: Kyuenjin | Posted: 6/30/2003 9:47:22 PM

Can anyone explain how to get the energy tank in Main Plaza without going the regular way? I've heard it's possible, but I don't know how.

---
"The cruel angels thesis bleeds."

From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 7/1/2003 3:55:10 AM

njahnke: Andrew, you should try moonjumping to the top of column two and then shutting off the moonjump and morphing at the same time to see if gravity will kill the attempt to get sucked in by the bomb slot.

The problem with that is, is that there's no way to turn off a code mid-game (unlike the SNES/N64 AR's). This means that I'm stuck with it on until I reset the game =(

Kyuenjin: Can anyone explain how to get the energy tank in Main Plaza without going the regular way? I've heard it's possible, but I don't know how.

Yea, that's simple enough. Go to the tree to the right of the tank, and there's a ledge to the left of that tree. Simply do a V-shaped Space Jump away from the ledge in question, and then into the ledge. There's a bit of the ledge that the e-tank sits on that is slightly lower than the rest.

Just make it a "long" SJ and you'll make it easily enough.

Andrew "Mp Speed Monkey" Mills

From: njahnke | Posted: 7/1/2003 5:10:25 AM

Kyuenjin, interesting on that ledge. I didn't encounter that when I was playing. Do you know if it was above the second platform?

Also check this out: http://www.protoman.com/geo/

I recorded the sjs to the third platform mainly for the audio so I could get the timing down.
---
Nate
www.protoman.com

From: gamecubeman27 | Posted: 7/1/2003 6:49:05 AM

From: Radix37 | Posted: 6/30/2003 2:40:49 PM | Message Detail
I'm curious about this 2:29 for 23%... was that skipping the frigate?

Radix37, yes i did skip the frigate by bombing thru the gate.

From: Radix37 | Posted: 7/1/2003 9:55:36 AM

Ah, if I wanted to redo 23% then I'd easily beat that, because I did mine a few days before the way to skip it was found... I dont know if I want to go through fighting OP again though.

From: funkytoad | Posted: 7/1/2003 9:55:46 AM

gamecubeman27:if you skipped the frigate, that means you got a PB expansion, which as far as this cowboy knows, means that you did not get 23%. Case Closed.
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ABICDEAFGHMIJKSLMNAOPQTRSTAUVWNXYZ

From: Radix37 | Posted: 7/1/2003 9:59:07 AM

funkytoad, you missed something early in this topic (or was it late in the last topic).... someone found out you can dbj over the bars in great tree hall, allowing you to skip the frigate in 23%.
20

From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 7/1/2003 10:03:24 AM

And that someone who discovered that.. was me =p

So you never need a pb expansion, just the main PB's.

Andrew "MP Speed Monkey" Mills

From: gamecubeman27 | Posted: 7/1/2003 1:57:16 PM

I dont know if I want to go through fighting OP again though.

OP gave me nightmares when it took me 3 days of playing, and i was playing for 5-7 hours a day.

From: njahnke | Posted: 7/1/2003 4:19:31 PM

What technique were you using when you finally beat it? Or was it just dumb luck that he went down?
---
Nate
www.protoman.com

From: Radix37 | Posted: 7/1/2003 5:32:31 PM

Luck is one of the major things you need... if you get plasma troopers you don't have any problems. When I finally beat him I got three plasma on the third round or I wouldn't have made it.

From: scizor213 | Posted: 7/1/2003 6:48:38 PM

I say ice is better. Just freeze and attack.
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i NO i KANT SPEL http://service.madonion.com/compare?2k1=4923289

From: Banks17 | Posted: 7/1/2003 6:54:53 PM

Kind of hard to freeze them without the charge beam.
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Half My Fun Is Ruining Yours.
http://metroid.retrofaction.com

From: swedamaniac | Posted: 7/1/2003 6:56:07 PM

um does anybody check out how those people are getting their finish time/percentages for the records on the first page or are they just sending in random figures on the message board,,, hey I just beat MP in 30 min 100% on hard
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"we must move forward not backward, upward not forward, and always twirling, twirling twards victory" Kang and Kodos from The Simpsons

From: Banks17 | Posted: 7/1/2003 6:57:43 PM

swedamaniac: people such as kip and cal have made video documentation of their runs. I've seen them and can tell you that those times are quite accurate.
---
Half My Fun Is Ruining Yours.
http://metroid.retrofaction.com

From: Toozin | Posted: 7/1/2003 7:13:50 PM

It's really not that hard to tell when people are lying, even when they don't have video documentation. You'll be able to tell if you ask them specific details about their run. It's pretty simple.
---
yah, you little, who is also fat, slut - |2ag3
Maru Mari, a Metroid sprite comic: http://metroid.retrofaction.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18

From: njahnke | Posted: 7/1/2003 8:41:16 PM

Possible progress against Omega Pirate.

Don't know if this is documented yet or not, but here goes:

Knock all of his armor off and immediately morph and roll to his right foot. Lay a Power Bomb and evacuate (to avoid being repeatedly hit by his collision radius). At the first possible opportunity, lay another Power Bomb in the same place. The idea is to have the Power Bomb's blast radius intersect his chest before he starts any kind of useful animation sequence (such as calling for backup). He will be unable to call for Troopers (and so there will be no Troopers), and he will be also unable to cloak himself.

He will disappear, but you will still be able to collide with the area he was standing in and take damage until he appears at one of his recharge stations, at which point he will be completely visible...but still invulnerable. :/

I have only reproduced this three times at present, and I haven't been able to hit him with anything any of those times. He may be hard-coded to only take damage if the X-ray visor is on. To test this, I would need to activate the bug, fire a Super Missile at him, and then turn the visor on while the Super Missile was still in transit...my bet is that yes, I'll be able to damage him that way, but it goes without saying...that's kind of proving our quest impossible rather than proving it possible.

Full video documentation here: http://www.protoman.com/opbug/
---
Nate
www.protoman.com
21

From: Banks17 | Posted: 7/1/2003 8:48:19 PM

With all this work you're doing, why not just use irc and talk to us on esper.net =p
#metroid-online
---
Half My Fun Is Ruining Yours.
http://metroid.retrofaction.com

From: Kyuenjin | Posted: 7/1/2003 9:30:05 PM

Andrew, can you mess around with something I'm working on?

I managed to get into the secret world, and I also managed to pass through that room into the elevator room behind it. I'm thinking that if we can pass through doors in the secret world until we get to Geothermal Core, we might be able to walk through the ceiling and pass through the door to the Plasma Beam.

Heh. Very farfetched, but I think it's possible. Anyway, I shot the Ice Door from under the level, and then jumped through it. Jump from behind the door, and when you get up to level with it move forwards through it. That's how I think I did it anyway.

---
"The cruel angels thesis bleeds."

From: Valdek | Posted: 7/1/2003 10:36:38 PM

Any tips for beating Flaggra on hard mode with 23%?

Thanks.

(Btw, from Kyuenjin.)

---
"Peace is a gift of the grave and only found in the silence of the tomb."

From: njahnke | Posted: 7/1/2003 11:17:21 PM

FLAAAAAGHHRRAAAA is pretty easy once you get a feel for his pattern. For the first attack, lock onto him and B+tap left to line up with the first solar collector, lock onto it, and blast it into submission with Power Beam shots. This is a gimme.

Each time he comes back to life after that, lock onto him and dash around the room (B+tap) and try to get at least one solar collector down before you shoot him with one missile and then a few Power Beam shots to stun him. The key to getting around the room quicker than he comes out of his paralysis is locking onto him and dashing (B+tap).

Sometimes I can beat him without taking a hit. Good luck.
---
Nate
www.protoman.com

From: Kyuenjin | Posted: 7/2/2003 2:15:37 AM

Alright, I got Flaghra down - it's pretty easy. And well, I should know how to jump up Suntower. But any tips on the Chozo Ghosts? I died against them last time without taking out a single one.
---
"The cruel angels thesis bleeds."

From: njahnke | Posted: 7/2/2003 3:02:09 AM

B+tap dash around them a lot. Try to stay out of the middle of the room where they can surround you. It helps to watch the radar to try to note where they are as they appear.

In general, defense before offense. Don't try to sacrifice health for hits on them, as it's probably a bad idea. :) They'll eventually set themselves down in a bad location so that you can blow them away.
---
Nate
www.protoman.com

From: Kyuenjin | Posted: 7/2/2003 3:26:46 AM

Thanks, Njahnke. Flaghra is extremely simple now, but the Chozo Ghosts still kill me although I manage to take down at least one.

All in all, I think I've been persuaded not to try a 23% run. Many congratulations to the people who have actually done it - never thought it would be *this* hard.
---
"The cruel angels thesis bleeds."

From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 7/2/2003 3:33:02 AM

Anyway, I shot the Ice Door from under the level, and then jumped through it

How did you manage to jump around in the secret world??? I couldn't seem to get off the ground, even with the moonjump code!

And you got through the Ice Door as well??? Sweeeeeet. Never managed that. But I'll certainly take a look at Geo Thermal core.

Doubt it tho...

I found another secret world last night, but I needed the MoonJumping code to get in. But I see that not every area allows you to "float" outside, so the actual number of glitchable and escapable areas are limited. I'll try and get a list and see if we can manage to get in without the moonjumping code.

Oh, I also made a clearer PAL SJ First video and uploaded it on the old link. MUCH easier to make out now =)

Andrew "MP Speed Monkey"

From: Kyuenjin | Posted: 7/2/2003 3:38:39 AM

Umm. And as for jumping around in the Secret World... it's wierd. I just walked back and forth a lot while pressing B a lot, as well.

I haven't managed to get through a door again, although I have managed to open it and see the room beyond. Also, if you L-Lock your view up, the you should rise *very* slowly, until you hit the bottom of the floor, and stop. Sometimes if you jump there and move forward or backwards, you can get stuck in the floor. I think this is kind of what I did when I went through the door, but I'm not sure exactly.

I'd suggest messing around with it. Someone is bound to find out something. :)
---
"The cruel angels thesis bleeds."

From: Kyuenjin | Posted: 7/2/2003 3:46:47 AM

And by the way, Andrew, might not have to find a new place to get into the Secret World near Geothermal Core if we can somehow find a way to go down the elevator while still under the level.

I think it might be possible to jump into the elevator and activate it, but I'm not exactly sure what would happen after. Also, I tried jumping up and activating the elevator from beneath it, but that didn't work, so you might have to get stuck in the floor a few feet away and slide over to it.
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"The cruel angels thesis bleeds."
22

From: jamescom1 | Posted: 7/2/2003 5:25:12 AM

Is there a 23% walkthrough somewhere?

From: jamescom1 | Posted: 7/2/2003 6:10:03 AM

Yay! I finally did Sun Tower w/o Spider Ball.

From: gamecubeman27 | Posted: 7/2/2003 6:19:46 AM

Or was it just dumb luck that he went down?

it was mainly luck, and a lot of running away and shooting.

From: njahnke | Posted: 7/2/2003 2:09:05 PM

From a programming perspective, I doubt you will come out below the floor if you manage to activate the elevator.

You can see this in that it doesn't matter if Samus is facing the back of the elevator or the front or looking up or down or any which way when she activates it--she is always plunked down in the middle looking around to the exact same places every time. My old roommate and I had a running gag where we would say "EVERY TIME!" when she suddenly looks over to a particular place on every single elevator ride.

I actually wonder if that elevator ride it shows while it's loading the next area is really generated on-the-fly, or it's just a movie they show while the game loads. The transition to the next area (when the area name appears in the lower left corner) is pretty rough if you really watch.
---
Nate
www.protoman.com

From: KingHydra | Posted: 7/2/2003 2:24:19 PM

How do I get the Power Bomb Expansion in Phendrana's Edge without the grappling beam? Anyone got a movie on it?

From: njahnke | Posted: 7/2/2003 3:49:38 PM

KingHydra, cool name. Check out http://membres.lycos.fr/zellmetroid/sb-ppc.html

Very fun trick.
---
Nate
www.protoman.com

From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 7/2/2003 4:32:12 PM

Hi guys. Just dropping in to say hello.

o_O, 21%? How come every time I leave this board for a few months everything goes crazy. My suntower bomb grate thingy is useless ;_;. And there's a way to skip the frigate on low % now? That means I didn't do anything useful anymore. Rargh, I gotta get a steady internet connection set up here so I can discover something of worth now. This cannot stand!

Away!

---
Santa Claus: "Your fondness of cheese won't help you now, evil wizard!"
Daolon Wong: "That's CHI not CHEESE!" -- Jackie Chan Adventures

From: Amasawa | Posted: 7/2/2003 6:08:06 PM

sup Sesshoumaru; good to hear from ya. Seems like somebody's always discovering something new around here. You should get back into it and figure out how to get rid of something else. old suntower trick wo super missiles still deserves mad props. =]

Congratulations on getting your name in EGM Speed Apple. =D At least they got it almost right.

SkedarHunter, nice find on the workaround for the thermal glitch. Glad to know that no one will get completely burned by that one anymore.
---
Metroid Online
http://metroid.retrofaction.com

From: TemplarofNI | Posted: 7/2/2003 6:36:59 PM

ARRRRRGGGGHHHHH
does anyone have any help for getting up to the spider ball track after raising the ceiling in Geothermal Core?
I did what it said on the sequence breaking site but i can't make it... no matter how much i try... which ends with me falling and restarting.... DARN IT ALL!!!
---
I am the Templar of Ni! Bring me a shrubbery!!!

From: jamescom1 | Posted: 7/2/2003 11:24:02 PM

Sorry if this isn't the right place to ask this, but is there a method to killing beam troopers in a 23% game? (I can't seem to dodge their shots very well.)
23

From: Toozin | Posted: 7/3/2003 12:33:31 AM

SESS! GET YOUR ASS BACK ONLINE ON A REGULAR BASIS RIGHT FREAKING NOW!

*cough*

I mean... hey Sess.
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yah, you little, who is also fat, slut - |2ag3
Maru Mari, a Metroid sprite comic: http://metroid.retrofaction.com/marumari.html

From: NotN00b | Posted: 7/3/2003 10:40:47 AM

Anybody got a vid of .mpg of Fungall Hall B w/o grapple? Please?
---
"After reading the harmful effects of Alcohol, I decided to stop reading." --My Friend XD!

From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 7/3/2003 12:47:20 PM

Anybody got a vid of .mpg of Fungall Hall B w/o grapple? Please?

Are you not meaning Fungal Hall A as that's the one with the harder non-grapple jump. Oh, and sorry for the delay, I have been busy preparing for my graduation from university tomorrow o_O

http;//www.samus.co.uk/movies/mprime/fungal_hall_a.mpg (790k)

BTW: I have some excellent Metroid artwork for you if you're willing to do us another banner for the site (same dimensions)...

http://www.samus.co.uk/banner_art.zip

Just finished my first recorded MP run (on my PC). A very annoying 2hrs 19 mins >=( I didn't do a few tricks (namely Wild after Flaahgra, as that was REEEEALY annoying me, I also took a wrong turn on my way to the sun artifact and went the long way! And Ironically, I couldn't do the trick I discovered - the DBJ over the Great Tree Bars o_O).

Arse, 1.7 gigs of recorded MP goodness (or crapness in this case). Damn Retro and their PAL tinkering.. DAAAAMNNNNN YOUUUUUUU!!!!!! *starts crying*

Andrew "Graduating MP Speed Monkey" Mills

From: Refreshment | Posted: 7/3/2003 2:16:34 PM

Hey thats funny Mills, since you were the first one to suggest that maybe its posible to by pass the bars.

But i remember Zoidi to be the first one to actually pull off the trick.
You could have save sometime, Hilarious >:)

From: NotN00b | Posted: 7/3/2003 2:52:38 PM

No, I am meaning Fungall Hall B. A was and is easy. Also, can you unzip the files and give me the actual files? Im not allowed to download zip files X_X
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"After reading the harmful effects of Alcohol, I decided to stop reading." --My Friend XD!

From: BlackMoon | Posted: 7/3/2003 3:15:55 PM

Please, I need help:

It is possible to take the expansion in Frost Cave without the Grapple Beam?

Anybody have a vid?
Thanks!

From: njahnke | Posted: 7/3/2003 3:31:03 PM

That's one I can't answer, aside from asking you, have you tried L-lock Space Jumping from the highest point you can reach without the grapple?

BTW, jamescom01, you might try a combination of jumping and B+tap (with lock-on) dodging. They get confused when you jump first, dodge second. Also try to stay as far away as possible. In a low percent run, you don't want to give them any unnecessary advantages. If you tap A constantly while you're doing all this, they should go down in no time.
---
Nate
www.protoman.com

From: Alucard977 | Posted: 7/3/2003 4:26:56 PM

Can someone give me a clue on how to trigger the Artifact of Wild right after beating Flaagra? I know it has something to do with going down the Sun Tower partially, therefore triggering the Artifact to appear. I just want a CLUE, I'm really anal about not figuring things out for myself, but this one's got me stumped.

From: njahnke | Posted: 7/3/2003 4:33:10 PM

Try falling down part of the Tower as a ball. You should be able to figure out a way to get back up.
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Nate
www.protoman.com

From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 7/3/2003 4:35:02 PM

NotN00b: No, I am meaning Fungall Hall B. A was and is easy>

o_O Hall B is ISNANLY easy!!! Just go to the right of the mushroom beside the end door (on the ground) and then Ghetto jump up and then left. As easy as that.

Oh, and I HAVE done the DBJ over the bars, but I couldn't for the life of me do it this morning on my recorded run =/

And regarding the files NotN00b, I won't be able to do that until next tuesday when I'm back from visiting my parents in Northern Ireland. After that, not a problem.

Andrew "MP Graduate Monkey" Mills
24

From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 7/3/2003 4:36:40 PM

From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 7/3/2003 4:41:09 PM

WHOA!

Double post. Sorry about that.

Andrew "Double Post c0nf1g h4x0r" Mills

From: Videogaming | Posted: 7/3/2003 4:48:07 PM

Hmm...zell's site needs a serious update. You guys should try for twice a month or so, considering the amount of info that needs to be added. Is anybody in the updating business?

Also, I am really having trouble with ghetto jumps. You start against the wall, right? ANd when do you move away? A short walkthru, please?
---
Opinions are like buttholes. Everyone has one.

From: Alucard977 | Posted: 7/3/2003 5:16:05 PM

Still can't get it (Artifact of Wild early) Do you triple bomb jump off of an Oculus? Other than that, I can't figure out any feasible way to get back up to the top of the Sun Tower.

From: Kyuenjin | Posted: 7/3/2003 5:38:09 PM

You're on the right track with the bomb jumping, Alucard, but you don't need triple bomb jumps.
---
"The cruel angels thesis bleeds."

From: Alucard977 | Posted: 7/3/2003 6:14:56 PM

Double? That's doesn't even seem nearly enough to get me 1/2 the way up from the top block.

From: Radix37 | Posted: 7/3/2003 6:34:06 PM

How can you possibly be "not allowed to download zip files", that's the stupidest thing i've heard lately.

From: NotN00b | Posted: 7/3/2003 6:37:04 PM

Radix37: Shutup, its my dads comp, and he blocked the actual file download. He's a computer programmer. So find something stupider, cause thats real.
---
"After reading the harmful effects of Alcohol, I decided to stop reading." --My Friend XD!

From: CALFoolio | Posted: 7/3/2003 6:43:51 PM

[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]

From: CALFoolio | Posted: 7/3/2003 6:44:56 PM

From: NotN00b | Posted: 7/3/2003 6:37:04 PM | Message Detail
Radix37: Shutup, its my dads comp, and he blocked the actual file download. He's a computer programmer. So find something stupider, cause thats real.

hahahah, how sad. notn00b, you are too hilarious.

---
Ikaruga- Arcade: 20,960,230 Prototype: 25,550,480
marth1 is god XD
25

From: bluberry | Posted: 7/3/2003 6:47:07 PM

May I suggest something to the people who run that MP site?

Brinkster is a freehost without ads.

Blarg, the blue thing at the top was ok, but that new thing on the right... blarg...
---
This is the sig virus. Copy and Paste to your sig and join the fun.
My site: http://www16.brinkster.com/bluberry/

From: Toozin | Posted: 7/3/2003 7:06:05 PM

We're in the process of porting all MPD content over to metroid.retrofaction.com right now. From this point onward, all MPD updates will be found there. No adds yet, but I believe we're gonna have to put up a banner add to keep our host Telefraged happy. No popups, fear not.

Anyway, I'll put a huge announcement up on Zell's site when the transfer is 100% complete. In the meantime, please bear with the flaws of Lycos. Goodness knows me and kip have. B-/
---
yah, you little, who is also fat, slut - |2ag3
Maru Mari, a Metroid sprite comic: http://metroid.retrofaction.com/marumari.html

From: Kyuenjin | Posted: 7/3/2003 7:19:23 PM

Actually, Alucard, don't need double bomb jumps either. Try to find a way to make it work with single bomb jumps.
---
"The cruel angels thesis bleeds."

From: NotN00b | Posted: 7/3/2003 7:41:42 PM

CALFoolio: I respect you, I refuse to get into a fight with you. All Im saying is that I literally cannot download .zip files on this computer, I've tried before -_-.
---
"After reading the harmful effects of Alcohol, I decided to stop reading." --My Friend XD!

From: Radix37 | Posted: 7/3/2003 10:20:25 PM

Preventing download of *.zip is stupid no matter how it was done or who did it. What is he trying to prevent? And i'm sure there's a way for you to get around it... try another web browser, use ctrl+alt+delete to kill the monitoring process, boot in safe mode, something. Or maybe just ask your dad why he did something so stupid.

BTW I've started a new normal any % speedrun... hoping to get < 1:45 but we'll see how it goes.

From: NotN00b | Posted: 7/3/2003 11:25:33 PM

Radix37: I may try that stuff, but on top of that, since my dad blocked it, I've never downloaded one. I dont know what to do even if I wanted too o_O So I may try, but I may not.
---
"After reading the harmful effects of Alcohol, I decided to stop reading." --My Friend XD!

From: jamescom1 | Posted: 7/3/2003 11:54:09 PM

Nope, I still can't get through Phazon Mines. Oh well, I guess I'll just have to get the Charge Beam. 24% is still pretty good.
---
You are on the way to destruction.
You have no chance to survive make your time.

From: chasm | Posted: 7/4/2003 3:17:18 AM

sow how close are you guys to 22%

From: LLCoolDave | Posted: 7/4/2003 6:25:39 AM

Hella Close. People should probably spend more work into Life Groove, it seems to be the worse problem. At least Geo seems to be close to be solved.
---
"I've won several tournaments with the target, but I've never won with Sandbag. So sandbag is the worst." ~ r1k

From: njahnke | Posted: 7/4/2003 1:51:58 PM

Forgot to post this last night:

http://www.protoman.com/thermal_glitch_solved.avi

Enjoy!
---
Nate
www.protoman.com
26

From: njahnke | Posted: 7/4/2003 11:01:01 PM

Also:

http://www.protoman.com/sj_across_observatory.avi
---
Nate
www.protoman.com

From: jamescom1 | Posted: 7/5/2003 12:44:34 AM

Never mind. I got through Phazon Mines (to the Power Bombs). Now, it's time for...Omega Pirate. *shudders* But, I'll have to get there first. Does anyone have a video for Metroid Quarantine A (23% game)?
---
You are on the way to destruction.
You have no chance to survive make your time.

From: chasm | Posted: 7/5/2003 1:15:34 AM

What is it this time boost?

From: kip | Posted: 7/5/2003 1:27:35 AM

yeah, boost. still 3 problem rooms in the way though.

From: jamescom1 | Posted: 7/5/2003 1:49:43 AM

Sorry to ask so many questions, but is there a way up Research Access (in Phazon Mines) without Spider Ball so I can go in Elite Research the back way? And how do you get past Crossway (in Chozo Ruins) without Boost Ball?
---
You are on the way to destruction.
You have no chance to survive make your time.

From: kip | Posted: 7/5/2003 2:57:57 AM

for research access, i don't believe so, although i know trebor messed around there once and got really close to reaching the top.

crossway without boost just requires a space jump from near the ice door to the other side. vid here:

http://www.ens-lyon.fr/~vpoupet/metroid_prime/

From: jamescom1 | Posted: 7/5/2003 4:17:31 AM

Thanks, kip. I guess I'll have to wait for a Metroid Quarantine A video.
---
You are on the way to destruction.
You have no chance to survive make your time.

From: chasm | Posted: 7/5/2003 3:45:20 PM

What are the rooms?

From: kip | Posted: 7/6/2003 4:30:35 AM

geothermal core (to get plasma), life grove (to get the artifact there), ventilation shaft

From: kip | Posted: 7/6/2003 4:42:50 AM

i can't believe that popup on the right side of mpd... sigh. seems like something is always getting in our way when we're trying to do this impossible task of getting all the knowledge archived somewhere.

mpd is either going to have to be moved somewhere with no popups and no nonsense, or just stop updating it and let everything go to tim's site. don't really know what to do.
27

From: LLCoolDave | Posted: 7/6/2003 6:06:52 AM

Didn't we plan to totally move it over to MO?
---
"I've won several tournaments with the target, but I've never won with Sandbag. So sandbag is the worst." ~ r1k

From: kip | Posted: 7/6/2003 6:45:13 AM

true...

btw, andrew, if you see this, can you see if samus can fit through the top of the gate (in ball mode) in processing center access? if she can, we can try to find a way to bomb jump over the gate like what was done with the great tree hall bars. that would let us get 100% before omega pirate.

if you already tried it and she can't fit, then nevermind i guess. =P

From: Gray Fox 9996 | Posted: 7/6/2003 12:13:11 PM

kip: wouldn't that also make the low percent runs (specifically the no-spider run) about 50x easier? Considering you skip the largest trouble spots in the game (save for the scripted wave beam pirate battle down in the early phazon mines section...or is there a way to skip that, too?), such as MQA w/out spider.
---
"I am like you...I have no name." Gray Fox
If knowledge is power, and power corrupts, then absolute knowledge corrupts absolutely.

From: kip | Posted: 7/6/2003 12:42:41 PM

hmm, probably yeah. you wouldn't even have to do mqa without spider (which is pretty annoying), but because of no tanks and phazon being all over the floor before you reach the gate, in low % you would probably be almost dead when you get there. so you would have to refill health before taking on omega pirate (unless you are like super hardcore).

there is a way to skip the scripted wave battle (only in ntsc), but it requires spider to do so at the moment, so it's unusable in 23%. =[ it's because you have to go up research access (the huge vertical room right after elite research) and boost through the wall in elite research, but there is no way to get up research access without spider. it would be really sweet if there was though; i remember trebor saying he got extremely close to doing it but i don't know how.

From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 7/6/2003 7:20:50 PM

[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]

From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 7/6/2003 7:25:43 PM

Hi.

Suggested that right when Mills/Zoidi managed to bypass the Great Tree Hall bars. But the post most have been missed.

Remembering now, those sliding blocks are way to close to each other. So not many chances there to make the miracle.

If by some chance is posible to bypass those sliding blocks, then it could be very interesting to try that at Elite Quarter Access to see what happens if get trough the frozen door without using the plasma there. Maybe this un-freezing triggers something at the OP fight.

From: Gray Fox 9996 | Posted: 7/6/2003 9:14:01 PM

Yeah, maybe it'll end up like Flaahgra when you go through the back with the Moonjump code, and OP will just dissappear!

Or maybe not...

But really, where's the "MP Moonjumping Monkey" when ya need him most? I'd sure as hell like to make my *real* no-spider run much easier (last one was flawed by my stupidity...no Artifact of Wild after Flaahgra :-/).
---
"I am like you...I have no name." Gray Fox
If knowledge is power, and power corrupts, then absolute knowledge corrupts absolutely.

From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 7/7/2003 8:12:18 AM

But really, where's the "MP Moonjumping Monkey" when ya need him most?

I'm currently back in Northern Ireland visiting my parents and friends until tuesday evening (GMT). I'm in a Net cafe at the mo.

@Kip: I have already tried big style to bypass the bars behind OP's room, but unless there's a glitch found that we can exploit, then there's currently no hope of doing it.

Can you trigger the OP fight with just the PB Expansions? Or are the main PB's needed (artifact of warrior style)?

Andrew "MP Travel Monkey" Mills

From: TreborSelbon | Posted: 7/7/2003 9:01:30 AM

Sorry I've been gone guys. My connection went completely down the tubes. I'm at my mom's office right now.

Well, the good news is with all this free time, I've completely rewritten my FAQ. So, as soon as I get back, it will be updated.

Also, I'm not sure if it's been mentioned yet, but you can do MQA sans spider without using a Metroid at all. But, believe me, it's tons harder. I've only done it twice myself. Yes, you can actually do a dash jump from the missile expansion, but the angle is a little funny. I have it on vid, but I have no way to get it to anyone. If anyone has done it already, then you get a big round of applause from me.

Hopefully, this hiatus will only last a few more days.

---
Marie is a stunning woman with a body to die for, and you think I'm only interested in her mind? How shallow do you think I am? ~ Frasier

From: TreborSelbon | Posted: 7/7/2003 9:08:33 AM

And, after reading the topic, I see that it has. Oh well...

---
Marie is a stunning woman with a body to die for, and you think I'm only interested in her mind? How shallow do you think I am? ~ Frasier
28

From: njahnke | Posted: 7/7/2003 9:14:56 AM

WB! :)
---
Nate
www.protoman.com

From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 7/7/2003 1:10:49 PM

Hi.

Mentioned the dash jump using the missile expansion for MQA in page 8 of this topic.
At least you went and read the topic back.

So with what way you made the jump easier?

Was waiting for Skedarhunter to tell if he made the jump.

From: gameboyadvancdude | Posted: 7/7/2003 4:08:19 PM

Is there a guide to a 23% game out there? I found one fro 27% but not 23
---
Men are stupid, Women are evil, food is good

From: tfd | Posted: 7/7/2003 4:21:54 PM

I'm trying to pick up the missile expansion in the Choze Ruins Crossway, without activating the intended mechanism.

I can jump onto the broken wooden peg thing which is up on the adjacent wall near the corner very close to the expansion. From there I can double jump over to the morph ball slot in which the expansion sits. But I can't go into morph ball at the right time, to get close enough to pick up the expansion. Any help? I've watched the video.

I've tried morphing before I hit the wall, and about when I hit the wall, and after I've hit the wall. In all cases I seem to fall down very fast without coming close enough to the expansion to pick it up. I'm holding forward on the stick (trying to push into the wall) the whole time. I've also tried morphing in air hoping to arc over and hit about where the expansion is, but no luck.

It's rather cool, by the way, to walk around on the beams just under the broken ceiling. I like looking out at the horizon to see what's there (which is nothing but pretty sky in the Ruins).
---
-- Tom
http://mysite.verizon.net/~vze1oue7/id9.html (my ray tracing hobby)

From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 7/7/2003 5:01:47 PM

Hi.

Gameboyadvancdude:

The "minimun percent guide" is a 23% guide.
Go and check it at the Prime FAQ list.

From: gameboyadvancdude | Posted: 7/7/2003 5:34:21 PM

thx devilbit, i'm having trouble doing the sj early, i always don't have enough height and end up hitting the wall below the platform i am trying to land on. Help would be appreciated.
---
Men are stupid, Women are evil, food is good

From: gameboyadvancdude | Posted: 7/7/2003 5:36:57 PM

nvm, i got it
---
Men are stupid, Women are evil, food is good

From: kip | Posted: 7/8/2003 12:03:54 AM

normal 34% 1:28

major thanks to cal for advice/tips/etc etc etc

now that sub 1:30 any was realized, who's up for getting 1:59 100%?

From: CALFoolio | Posted: 7/8/2003 12:53:45 AM

sub-2 100%? hmm... *looks at kip*...

---
Ikaruga- Arcade: 20,960,230 Prototype: 25,550,480
marth1 is god XD

From: Radix37 | Posted: 7/8/2003 1:39:34 AM

Wow you even broke 1:29?
Huge congratulations are in order.
I'm saved at the observatory right now in my rerun. After many failures of the entire phendrana segment I caved and saved in the middle.

As for 1:59 100%.... it's possible but oh so hard
29

From: kip | Posted: 7/8/2003 1:49:12 AM

yeah, i wasn't expecting it at all. i don't even understand how it's possible with the time i had at impact crater... gonna try to get cal to analyze the vid. =P

From: Psuedo Realizm | Posted: 7/8/2003 2:36:50 AM

in the words of brian fellows "thats CRAZY"

From: Banks17 | Posted: 7/8/2003 9:29:02 AM

Make him do a commentary with the yellow pen and call out good plays John Madden styles. That way it can be informative AND funny ^_^
---
Half My Fun Is Ruining Yours.
http://metroid.retrofaction.com

From: gameboyadvancdude | Posted: 7/8/2003 8:10:42 PM

If I don't do the Sun tower w/o spider ball trick after flagghra(because i can't do it) what's the minimum percentage i can get. thx in advance
---
Men are stupid, Women are evil, food is good

From: kip | Posted: 7/8/2003 8:17:22 PM

24% then. get spider but don't get everything else (so don't get the charge beam or super missiles, grav, thermal, grapple, etc).

From: gameboyadvancdude | Posted: 7/8/2003 8:27:22 PM

thx, i just got into this sequence breaking stuff, and i gotta say its very very challenging. How did u guys come up with the different techniques anyway?
---
Men are stupid, Women are evil, food is good

From: SkedarHunter | Posted: 7/8/2003 8:31:50 PM

DEVILBIT: I haven't tried getting past MQA w/o Spider Ball yet. Right now I'm trying to get to the Life Grove w/o Gravity Suit to see if the Spinner trick can be done w/o the Gravity Suit. If it can, then we'll have only two more rooms keeping us from a no-Boost Ball run(Geothermal Core and Ventilation Shaft).

Also, something I noticed that helps when getting up the Spider Ball track near the Furnace(Chozo Ruins) w/o Spider Ball. I found that if the camera is at an angle when facing the track, it makes wall TBJing up the track a lot easier(holding up and right or up and left on the stick seems to give you more height then just holding up on the stick); I can make the jump nearly every time doing that.(whereas if the camera is facing the front of the track, I could try 30 times and only come close once or twice).
---
Nobody dies a virgin; life ****s us all. - My friend

From: NotN00b | Posted: 7/8/2003 10:29:50 PM

w00t! I finally beat a no spider, grapple, Thermal, and Gravity Suit game =D But it was not low percent, nor speedy XP
---
"After reading the harmful effects of Alcohol, I decided to stop reading." --My Friend XD!

From: Videogaming | Posted: 7/8/2003 10:30:01 PM

Hmm...just a couple things...

If we want to try a no-sj game, don't try for the as-of-yet unsolved rooms. Just get sj, go to the Impact Crater, and see if you can make it up there without sj. Because if you can't, then there's really no point in trying to go without it :p

Also, congrats to kip for that o_0 time...

And just wondering, are there any classic tbj(m)s that can be made easier by pushing against a wall? Sometimes, a wall can just complicate it, but other times, it is helpful.
---
Opinions are like buttholes. Everyone has one.

From: kip | Posted: 7/8/2003 10:50:42 PM

"Just get sj, go to the Impact Crater, and see if you can make it up there without sj. Because if you can't, then there's really no point in trying to go without it :p"

i've tried that impact crater room before. i was able to bomb jump to every platform except for 2 of them just before the door to the missile station. 2 of the platforms there are very far apart and i'm not sure how one would make those jumps. but i made every single one past the missile station door, that's why i say if someone can find a way to skip all those platforms before the missile station door somehow and start off at it, reaching prime probably wouldn't be a problem.

there's also a problem with testing on a file that has space jump. it's proven that it enhances your single jump ability, and gives you false perceptions that certain jumps are possible with 1 jump but really aren't. earlier in this topic i also mentioned having sj enhances your grapple ability.

it might also do something lame with your bomb jumping ability for all we know, that would mean my tests could be useless and all those jumps to the platforms can't actually be made with traditional techniques.

the only other unsolved room is geo core (as far as we can see, since we can't test the rooms in between mqa and elite quarters due to not having plasma).
30

From: tlj9204 | Posted: 7/9/2003 1:15:44 AM

OK, just wanted to let everyone here know that Metroid Prime Discoveries' content move was completed earlier this morning; it's how available at Metroid Online (http://metroid.retrofaction.com). In the future, we plan to cover all remaining info on all the Metroid games, as well as bring the in-depth info we've done for Metroid Prime and do the same thing for Metroid, Metroid II, Super Metroid, and Metroid Fusion. Click the Metroid Prime link off the main page, and access the Sequence Breaking tab to find all the old MPD content. Among the newer features are planned artwork collections, sprite comics courtesy of Rage and Toozin, a fully functional phpbb forum database, and a whole lot more. Please bear with us as we get the banner ads worked out, and add a few more features, but for all intents and purposes, Metroid Online is officially open for business. Enjoy.

-Tim
*wiping the sweat off his brow from the work he's done in the last month and a half*

---
Site Admin, Metroid Online: http://metroid.retrofaction.com
Espernet IRC Channel: #metroid-online

From: l2ag3 | Posted: 7/9/2003 1:34:27 AM

[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]

From: l2ag3 | Posted: 7/9/2003 1:47:29 AM

*gives tim a cookie for his huge amount of work*
---
Creator of Maru Mari, a metroid sprite comic-> http://metroid.retrofaction.com/marumari.html
contributer at http://metroid.retrofaction.com

From: Radix37 | Posted: 7/9/2003 2:26:11 AM

The high scores at MO need updated :-p
Otherwise great job on the site... I seem to remember you setting july 15th as the opening date, it seems you beat that by a whole week! ;-)

From: Nny | Posted: 7/9/2003 9:07:38 AM

I'm having a spot of trouble downloading the Sun Tower sans Spider Ball movie; I seem to lack the correct codec and I can only play the audio of the file. I've tried on both WinAmp and Windows Media, both to no avail. My question is this: Is it easier for Samus to wedge herself between the dark strip and the wall with Space Jump, THEN morph and fall onto an Oculus and begin bombing, or is it simply easier to turn into a morph ball and roll off the side of the Spider Block? Some insight would be appreciated. Thanks and keep up the great work.

From: Videogaming | Posted: 7/9/2003 10:18:14 AM

kip- It doesn't matter, for that test, whether sj increases overall jump ability. The fact remains that, since you can't make the impact crater without employing it, a no sj game is impossible.

I'm getting lazy...update...sometime...
---
Opinions are like buttholes. Everyone has one.

From: tlj9204 | Posted: 7/9/2003 11:15:57 AM

From: Radix37 | Posted: 7/9/2003 2:26:11 AM | Message Detail
The high scores at MO need updated :-p
Otherwise great job on the site... I seem to remember you setting july 15th as the opening date, it seems you beat that by a whole week! ;-)

Yep. For a while, I thought I'd have to postpone it to August 1st since porting MPD looked bigger than it turned out to be, heheh. But I had a crack staff to help out ;)
If someone wants to post the new scores here, or email them to me, that'd be great, that way I can keep on top of those.

-Tim
*running back now to finish up the Super Metroid and Metroid Fusion sections*

---
Site Admin, Metroid Online: http://metroid.retrofaction.com
Espernet IRC Channel: #metroid-online

From: tfd | Posted: 7/9/2003 11:48:02 AM

I managed to pick up the missile expansion in the Crossway last night (by jumping into it), after some more attempts. Yeay for me. :-) I also was poking around on top of the room's ceiling beams again. Fun to go over to the end of one and face into the room, then morph into the morph ball. When you unmorph, the camera whips around, especially if you are on one of the beams over the central half pipe.
---
-- Tom
http://mysite.verizon.net/~vze1oue7/id9.html (my ray tracing hobby)

From: kip | Posted: 7/9/2003 1:48:14 PM

afaik i'm the only one who's even looked at phazon core without space jump; who knows what devilbit or someone could find? i agree it's not looking good at the moment, but we can't just give up so soon, especially since it's the only problem room besides geo.

From: Radix37 | Posted: 7/9/2003 7:50:51 PM

The updates to the fastest times include my 2:31 for 23%, someone else getting 2:29, and my 2:10 for normal 100%.
31

From: SkedarHunter | Posted: 7/9/2003 8:54:31 PM

LMAO...that comic on MO is gold.
---
Nobody dies a virgin; life ****s us all. - My friend

From: TreborSelbon | Posted: 7/10/2003 2:49:03 PM

I should be back tonight guys. Got a new ISP, finally.

I don't want to jinx anything, but I'm might be on the verge of sub-2 23%. It's going to be close at least.

---
Marie is a stunning woman with a body to die for, and you think I'm only interested in her mind? How shallow do you think I am? ~ Frasier

From: gamecubeman27 | Posted: 7/10/2003 3:48:14 PM

Radix37 - thats my 2:29 for 23%.

From: Radix37 | Posted: 7/11/2003 12:57:39 AM

Heh yeah gamecubeman27 congrats on that, though the only reason you beat me is because I just got through the frigate on my 23% a few days before they figured out how to skip it :-|

Just an update: I got a 1:39 for normal any % today, that's doing the last 43 minutes in one go without saving because it wasn't good enough... at least 5 minutes worth of mistakes.

From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 7/11/2003 1:57:07 AM

Well played on your 1:39. I haven't touched my NTSC copy of MP in AGES now, simply because I want to cement my PAL WR some more.

Andrew "About to Start Work" Mills

From: WacKeD | Posted: 7/11/2003 9:50:24 PM

i have a question about the sequence breaking part for the sun tower. can someone describe how to land on the ledge after reaching the proper height cause i can easily get to the top but never can roll out of the ball properly.
---
I'm vengence! I'm the night! I'm BATMAN! ~~~Batman~~~~

From: Radix37 | Posted: 7/11/2003 10:22:34 PM

WacKeD, here's what you want: http://www.ens-lyon.fr/~vpoupet/metroid_prime/sun_tower_wo_spider.avi

You need DivX to watch it...

From: jamescom1 | Posted: 7/12/2003 1:25:04 AM

When you're next to the ledge, right after the last bomb propels you upward, hold up-right on the control stick. A moment after that, press X and you should land on the ledge. If you haven't already, you should watch the video (the link is in the post above me). You'll need DivX to watch it. (it's free; go to http://www.divx.com/divx)
---
You are on the way to destruction.
You have no chance to survive make your time.

From: hylin | Posted: 7/12/2003 2:29:36 AM

I would like know any way to get missile expansion without grapple beam in root cave? Any idea?

I can jump to the platform in main plaza that leads to the training chamber. When i want to get into the room of training chamber in morph ball mode, there's wall blocked at the end of the ball tunnel. Any way to pass it?

From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 7/12/2003 5:13:43 AM

Hi.

For the Root Cave missile expansion withouth grapple do this:

Jump to the tip of the tall stick (in the bridge). Face a bit to the right, above theres a platform, and below the platform youll see some branches, this branches form a figure that looks like a twisted sling shot. Jump in the hole they form. L-lock the view down a slide a bit to the left. L-lock the view up, should see a paltform, jump to the side and then quickly straight to the platform. From here everything is obvious.

The jump is a bit tricky, but is quite posible.
32

From: hylin | Posted: 7/12/2003 11:10:26 AM

DEVILBIT,

For the Root Cave missile expansion without grapple, I can jump in the hole u mentioned. However, i don't see any platform that i can possibly jump from the hole. Any hints for this?

From: WacKeD | Posted: 7/12/2003 12:28:13 PM

thx i'll try it out
---
I'm vengence! I'm the night! I'm BATMAN! ~~~Batman~~~~

From: Alucard977 | Posted: 7/12/2003 1:53:22 PM

Ok, I can bomb jump up the Sun Tower to get the Artifatc of Wild early, but how do get back inside the crevice where the door is? I bomb climb to the very top, but i try to roll to the right and just fall down to the bottom, any help?

From: WacKeD | Posted: 7/12/2003 2:19:08 PM

Alucard977 that's the question i asked just 2 questions ago, all u have to do is when ur at the ledge at the top and ur bomb explodes, change ur direction on the control pad to up-right and a tiny bit after that un-morph out and u should be on it.

once again i gotta thank Radix37 and jamescom1 cause i tried it and it worked on the first shot.
---
I'm vengence! I'm the night! I'm BATMAN! ~~~Batman~~~~

From: tfd | Posted: 7/12/2003 4:41:42 PM

Is it old news that you can get up to the top of Phendrana's Ruined Courtyard without activating any spinners or bomb slots (i.e., without flooding the room)? I was just in there poking around; I have boost ball but did not use it.

From the bottom door, go over to the right end of the room (the end with the save station at the top) where there is a spinner device. Jump on top of it -- not just on top of the body of the spinner, but a tad higher on the top of the up-pointing arm against the wall. Now you want to jump up to the platform (which has a bomb slot) that is just about over your head. A standard double jump dooes not do it for me, but a ghetto jump does (facing into the wall for ease, making it a rather blind jump up once, then out and right). Once you're on that platform, you can space jump to the central pillar's middle platforms and continue as normal to the top.
---
-- Tom
http://mysite.verizon.net/~vze1oue7/id9.html (my ray tracing hobby)

From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 7/12/2003 4:50:13 PM

Hi.

tfd:
There are two ways to by pass the spinners.

The one you mentioned was already discovered by Paratroopa.

The other way proposed here, is to L lock Spring Jump from the high bomb slot to the central pillar.

Hylin: Root Cave missile

Once you are in the hole, turn around facing the oposite direction. Above you is a platform, more or less to the right is other platform, you want to land in this one.

If you look a bit up is more easy to see. You got to space jump there, is more or less tricky.

From: gamecubeman27 | Posted: 7/12/2003 6:31:31 PM

I'm getting lazy...update...sometime...

VG, I can see that; but an update would be nice (mainly because there hasn't been one in a hell of a long time).

From: Radix37 | Posted: 7/12/2003 7:17:25 PM

gcm27: you can find the high scores here now: http://metroid.retrofaction.com/games/mp/seq_break/highscores.html

From: tfd | Posted: 7/12/2003 10:12:55 PM

>Root Cave missile

>Once you are in the hole, turn around facing the oposite
>direction. Above you is a platform, more or less to the
>right is other platform, you want to land in this one.

>If you look a bit up is more easy to see. You got to space
>jump there, is more or less tricky.

I'm trying (unsuccessfully) to do this jump. Help! I can get into what I'm fairly sure is the "slingshot" hole Then I turn around, to face the grapple point. When looking at the grapple point, if I turn a bit to the right, I can see a large ledge (with no roots) sticking out from the wall. I assume that is the next target I am to reach, but I can't get very close to it.

When I'm in the shingshot hole, there is a very low ceiling, so when I try to jump out and then over/up to the ledge, I hit my head almost right away, nullifying most of the first jump. With my second jump I'm in the clear, but quite far from the target. I've tried to begin the jump from the slingshot from various starting positions, along the (short!) length of root that I can stand on. I try to jump out/sideways as fast as I can, but I hit my head almost immediately no matter what I've tried.

Devilbit, do you hit your head when you do the first jump? If so, how can you still make it to the ledge? If not, how do you avoid hitting your head? Thanks for any further clarity you (or anyone) can provide.
---
-- Tom
http://mysite.verizon.net/~vze1oue7/id9.html (my ray tracing hobby)

From: jamescom1 | Posted: 7/13/2003 12:27:35 AM

Is there a movie for this Root Cave missile expansion?
---
You are on the way to destruction.
You have no chance to survive make your time.
33

From: Kyuenjin | Posted: 7/13/2003 2:41:17 AM

Tfd, you can try it the way that I do it. Instead of space jumping out of the hole, morph and try a dbj-unmorph forwards. Works pretty well, I think.
---
"The cruel angels thesis bleeds."

From: Gold Leader | Posted: 7/13/2003 8:35:55 AM

HOLY ****. My sucky time are still there!?!?!? WOH!
---
Free cookie. Just tell me what kind you want. Cookies served: 53
Proud member of the TGAPLP Fan Club!

From: Koran Rag | Posted: 7/13/2003 8:38:08 AM

I'll take a black & white cookie, GL.
---
� K�ran Rag �
freewebz.com/kotor

From: Gold Leader | Posted: 7/13/2003 8:38:49 AM

what is the lowest % on MP so far? I haven't played this game in about 3 months, and haven't been on this bard in about 2 months.
---
Free cookie. Just tell me what kind you want. Cookies served: 53
Proud member of the TGAPLP Fan Club!

From: Gold Leader | Posted: 7/13/2003 8:39:35 AM

*gives out my prizes black & white cookie*
---
Free cookie. Just tell me what kind you want. Cookies served: 54
Proud member of the TGAPLP Fan Club!

From: Koran Rag | Posted: 7/13/2003 9:03:10 AM

thanks!
---
� K�ran Rag �
freewebz.com/kotor

From: tfd | Posted: 7/13/2003 9:25:57 AM

>what is the lowest % on MP so far?

23%, something that I doubt I could ever do. How do you folks deal with picking up health orbs? Make sure to kill enemies when they are within reach I guess. Shudder.
---
-- Tom
http://mysite.verizon.net/~vze1oue7/id9.html (my ray tracing hobby)

From: kip | Posted: 7/13/2003 4:39:36 PM

picking up health is a big problem. i think it's at it's worst in 3 places: the scripted wave battle by main quarry, op, prime.

for the scripted wave fight, a common situation is you kill one of the waves and he leaves an ultra energy, then you go to get it and out of nowhere another wave mysteriously appears and shoots you right before you touch it (like they have a sixth sense).

for op, he takes up so much of the screen that it's hard to pick up health without risking being hit. i found it best to lead him away, then dash around him and back up into the health (but it's still very easy to miss since you're not able to see the health anymore and the collision detection for that is small).

i used to laugh at the first form of prime because whenever he made orbs i could get a full refill of my health by shooting them down and drawing in the ultra energy. but ever since the charge beam was dropped that hardly works; even if you wait until an orb is right up to you before destroying it, the ultra energy will likely be out of reach of a space jump. i still think he's way overrated though; imo the second form is much harder with no thermal/only 4 pbombs. especially on hard where it's like 10-12 pools to kill him without charge, and then there's all those times he switches phases without making a pool...

From: kip | Posted: 7/13/2003 11:56:56 PM

a little something i noticed earlier, dunno if it's been found yet: it's possible to dash jump across tft without spider, thus taking 0 damage and not having to do the bomb jump out of the lava (only works in ntsc though).

before entering the lava, walk to the end of the ground, then space jump to the wall on your left. if you hit the right part you'll be on an invisible ledge. turn around and look at the start of the spider ball track (on the root cave elevator's side). put on the scan visor, use the scan point on the track to dash jump to the left, then space jump to land at the other side. just be careful not to hit that other wall sticking out in the lava and it should be easy.

i made a vid, but no one is around to host it yet...

From: Sarcous | Posted: 7/14/2003 12:52:10 AM

For that site, I suggest if you want Super Metroid coverage you should go to the super metroid board. 15% run and Space-Time glitch comes to mind. ^_~

Anyway, wow. Good job everyone, this is amazing, but I'm not surprised at all. You are, after all, metroid fans. Is there anything I can do to help? I've been interested in this for quite some time now, even though it's been a while since I've played MP.
---
~Sean
34

From: kip | Posted: 7/14/2003 1:17:47 AM

boost needs to be dropped. but the problems in the way are:

* geo core (to get plasma)
* life grove (getting the artifact there)
* ventilation shaft (starting from the bottom and getting up the half pipe)

any help with these would be great. when all those are gone it should be 22%.

it's possible to already get the life grove artifact without boost, but for some reason it's only been done with the gravity suit, and that's no good since it's not part of the % anymore in low % games.

also very easy to raise the third spinner in geo without boost (the one with the track). i think it's glitched or something; but the problem is getting to the bomb slot above the second spinner, unless a way is found to raise that one also without boost.

From: kip | Posted: 7/14/2003 1:51:47 AM

i might have a possible solution for phazon core without space jump (key word: MIGHT). i can't do a real test since i can't get plasma in my no sj game, and we don't know if having sj does something lame to your bomb jump ability (giving the illusion that it's possible to get up phazon core without sj when it isn't). as i said before, it's proven that it already enhances single jump ability, so that's another problem.

again, i MIGHT have a solution. no guarantees whatsoever. but it sure looks a lot more promising than before. someone want to figure out how to get plasma?

From: Sarcous | Posted: 7/14/2003 1:56:44 AM

It'll be a while before I get around to helping, because I have to familiarize myself with the game again (and no I don't mean get accustomed to; I mean beat the game on 100% again to remind myself where everything is =P )
---
~Sean

From: kip | Posted: 7/14/2003 2:31:30 AM

yep, i'm convinced phazon core is possible now, as long as having space jump doesn't enhance bomb jump ability. i can get to the top door without even doing 1 jump, only using bomb jumps (one tbj and hella dbjs after that, then a bomb ladder for the very last jump).

but i need plasma to confirm it... my no sj game is sitting at the save point by geo with all the main items but plasma (and phazon suit of course). got most of the artifacts too.

From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 7/14/2003 5:24:23 AM

Hi.

Kip, already noticed that (about Twin Fire Tunnel) but didnt
bother to post it because it seems too random. Must of the time one ends hitting the middle wall. And if missing in low
percent itll guarenteed another retry.

With L-lock Space Jump and a good timing is almost posible to reach the other side.

The bomb jumping from Lava (when mastered) works extremly well, always found this very surprising.

From: kip | Posted: 7/14/2003 7:17:52 AM

hey radix, any tips for 4 pool prime without thermal? i really don't want to get it this time (and i'm at the segment where i have to make this decision), but i just can't get him in 4 pools without using it in my test fights. i can usually find him and damage him, but it's not enough for me to win in 4 pools.

other than that this run is looking pretty good. about 1 min 25 sec ahead of last time and there's still a lot of new stuff i need to implement in later segments (and mistakes to fix). i doubt i have any chance of 1:25, but i bet it's possible if played well enough.

From: Radix37 | Posted: 7/14/2003 9:50:13 AM

Well kip so far i've only fought him once without thermal in my run. I'm still working on a good OP segment. When I fought him he changed from x-ray to thermal without making a pool so it wasn't a problem. The key though would be to make sure you hit him with every last ounce of phazon on the other phases, that way you can afford to miss a bit with thermal before you find him. Also you can wait until he does a flame thing attack to know where he is.

From: tfd | Posted: 7/14/2003 11:09:00 AM

On the subject of a no-space jump game: Is a single W/O-SJ jump high enough to avoid the various ground wave attacks (such as from Omega Pirate and Metroid Prime/2)? Just curious.
---
-- Tom
http://mysite.verizon.net/~vze1oue7/id9.html (my ray tracing hobby)

From: SkedarHunter | Posted: 7/14/2003 3:16:22 PM

Don't know if this is known already, but there's another way to get the Root Cave expansion w/o Grapple. Go to the edge of the platform where you first walk in, look down and lock on to the Zoomer(with the Combat Visor, so this will work on NTSC and PAL, I figure). Now, when the Zoomer is as far on the left(from your POV) as it will go, do a double dash jump(do the dash jump, let go of L, then jump while in midair and flying sideways, for anyone who doesn't know); if positioned right(you might have to press back on the control stick a bit), you should land on the far ledge(make sure to kill the Geemer over there first), then you can go from there. You can still wait until you've got the X-Ray Visor, but if you want it earlier than that, just shoot around randomly to find the hidden platforms(the ones that the rain doesn't land on; your shots will still hit them; this also works when trying to get the Triclops Pit expansion w/o the X-Ray Visor).
---
Nobody dies a virgin; life ****s us all. - My friend

From: SkedarHunter | Posted: 7/14/2003 4:14:43 PM

I think I figured out a way to skip Ventilation Shaft w/o Boost Ball. It won't really work until Geothermal Core and Life Grove are solved, but here it is. Normally, you'd think you'd be screwed if you saved in Central Dynamo w/o the Boost Ball, right? Anyway...first get everything you're going to need before going up against the Omega Pirate(which means the Plasma Beam and X-Ray Visor, which in turn means getting the Boost Ball, but I'm not done yet). Save in Central Dynamo after getting the Power Bomb(you would still need a PB expansion to get Plasma Beam and X-Ray Visor early, so it can't be used as a low % method), then continue to Omega Pirate. After melting him and getting the Phazon Suit, go to Phazon Processing Center(it can be done without Spider Ball, I presume) and from there go to the Magmoor elevator. Then from there go to the Chozo Ruins elevator, from there to the elevator that takes you to the Great Tree Hall(I presume there's a way around the bars there w/o Boost Ball), and from there to the Phazon Mines elevator. Voila!

Like I said, though, it won't work as a low %(you need a PB expansion to get Plasma Beam and X-Ray Visor early), and it won't really work until Geothermal Core and Life Grove are solved(even if they were solved, you'd still end up with 23% from the PB expansion). Even if it won't push the low to 22%, at least it's a way to bypass Ventilation Shaft.(I've heard there's a way to bypass Hydro Access Tunnel w/o Gravity but with Boost, but I don't know it)

Speaking of bypassing the bars in Great Tree Hall, is there a specific spot to bomb jump from? I've gotten enough height(only with the TBJ, though), just never found a spot to squeeze through.
---
Nobody dies a virgin; life ****s us all. - My friend
35

From: kip | Posted: 7/14/2003 7:31:52 PM

about prime without thermal: if he went from x-ray to thermal without making a pool, doesn't that kind of defeat the point of not getting thermal? the time you spend waiting for him to switch back to combat and make a pool will go way over the 10-12 seconds it takes to pick up thermal. as far as i can see, for skipping it to make sense you would have to still win in 4 pools and still get 4 in a row (then it would be pointless to get thermal instead of skip it, since it's useless outside of prime).

about op/prime without space jump: i can't say for sure since sj enhances single jumps and i can't reach either of them due to not having plasma, but having sj but using only 1 jump to dodge their attacks seemed to work; that could just be because of having sj though.

about root cave: i don't think that method is known, congrats. =]

about vent shaft: yeah, that's been established. it's only a problem in low % (but that's kind of where it matters since the % needs to be pushed down as far as it can go). life grove isn't a problem outside of low % either since you can get the artifact if you have grav; boost would be skippable right now if geo wasn't a problem. but not for a lower % until the others are solved too.

From: Radix37 | Posted: 7/14/2003 7:51:42 PM

Thermal takes more than 10 seconds to get... I'd say at least 30. You just have to get lucky with prime.

From: DonnyDonovan | Posted: 7/14/2003 8:57:22 PM

I just spent about an hour working on ventilation shaft w/o boost to no avail. The only technique that seemed to get me close was working with ghetto jumps at various angles starting out as high as possible on the half-pipe. I could generally see the ledge on my second jump but just not quite get it. Is that the method others are focusing on? Just curious how much progress, if any, has been made towards solving this room.

From: kip | Posted: 7/14/2003 9:17:00 PM

=]

how does thermal take 30 seconds to get? coming back to the room after getting elder: shoot the pirate by the top computer with plasma, scan it, jump down to the other comp, scan it, jump down to the bottom, scan the last one. it's like 15 at the most.

i wanna skip thermal badly, but i'd just be screwing myself over if i got to the end only to not be able to beat prime with 4 pools in a row without it. i'd need to be sure it's possible to do that... ugh. =P

From: kip | Posted: 7/14/2003 9:22:09 PM

banks/sess have tried to bomb jump up the half pipe. but because it's a half pipe, you couldn't use conventional bomb jump techniques; if/when it's solved it'll probably be something that only works for that half pipe (or ones like it).

the force of 3-4 bombs in rapid succession would most likely be enough to get up if you morphed out after, but the problem is setting that up since she always rolls around and misses bombs.

From: TreborSelbon | Posted: 7/14/2003 11:07:08 PM

Normal 23%, 2:01

I hope to bring this down to at most 1:59 before I redo the run.

---
Marie is a stunning woman with a body to die for, and you think I'm only interested in her mind? How shallow do you think I am? ~ Frasier

From: Luigio | Posted: 7/15/2003 8:50:56 AM

Ok um... I am new to this board but I think I found a way to go through the game without collecting the missile launcher... First you get the Space Jump boots as soon as you land on Talon IV and then go to the chozo ruins with the big plaza with the half pipe. Ya know the indent in the wall that holds a missile expansion in it? well, if you get on this one platform (forget which) you can space jump into that little place with the missile expansion! So, naturally, grab the expansion and continue on through the game like normal... I really hope that I was of assistance... If this has been known already PLEASE DON'T FLAME ME! I am just trying to help... Oh yes... when you defeat the (SP!!!) hive mecha just jump over the missile launcher and grab the energy tank. JUST DON'T COLLECT THE LAUNCHER! I don't know what happens, but it can't possibly be good. So, just try it outand tell me if this works for you. I hope that I helped!
---
WHOA DUDE! CHECK OUT THAT KID WITH THE LOOGIE!--me while watching my friend playing LOZ:WW

From: kip | Posted: 7/15/2003 8:59:53 AM

yeah, playing without the launcher works fine.

From: dartsarecool9 | Posted: 7/15/2003 9:32:30 AM

I haven't been here in a while and I just skimmed through some of the posts. Did you figure out how to Skip the Frigate without adding a percent, or am I just misreading? And if you did, then how did you do it?
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I want everyone to know that I'm lost.

From: Luigio | Posted: 7/15/2003 10:11:30 AM

Oh, i'm sorry, i just REALLY want to be like you guys... with your '23%' runs and stuff. Oh well. I hope i can just discover somthing else... ok bye! i will post something later... bye!
---
WHOA DUDE! CHECK OUT THAT KID WITH THE LOOGIE!--me while watching my friend playing LOZ:WW
36

From: Radix37 | Posted: 7/15/2003 11:16:20 AM

I finished my any % run again and this time I got 1:34 ;-) I knew the 1:39 had 5 minutes of mistakes heh. It was with 38% also because I had to power bomb the metroids in fungal hall B so I got the missile there. Oh and yes kip, I did beat prime in only four pools.

From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 7/15/2003 11:32:15 AM

dartsarecool9: Did you figure out how to Skip the Frigate without adding a percent, or am I just misreading? And if you did, then how did you do it?

Yea, I figured out that you can slip past the bars in the Great Tree Hall, but I was doing it with the MoonJump code on an AR. So I suggested that someone try it via DBJ'ing over the bars to make sure, and it was confirmed as being possible (removing another set of problems in the process for a no-boost game to boot!).

This means MUCH less hassle in a low % game (no Hydro Access w/o grav probs or Gamma Deck shennanigans) as well as a faster route in a PAL speed run.

Andrew "MP Speed Monkey" Mills

From: dartsarecool9 | Posted: 7/15/2003 1:33:08 PM

Ah yes, I do remember that now that you mention it. Thanks
--
I want everyone to know that I'm lost.

From: kip | Posted: 7/15/2003 7:08:00 PM

luigio: nothing to be sorry about dude. it's easy to miss something if you're not constantly reading the topic.

anyways, there are always the no boost rooms and geo without space jump to claim. =P

From: Luigio | Posted: 7/15/2003 7:25:20 PM

Ah, thanks kip, I feel better now. So, what is that trick to get the spinner to activate without the boost ball? *is too lazy to check 35 pages*
---
WHOA DUDE! CHECK OUT THAT KID WITH THE LOOGIE!--me while watching my friend playing LOZ:WW

From: taylor | Posted: 7/15/2003 9:53:41 PM

what spinner trick?

From: jamescom1 | Posted: 7/16/2003 1:22:01 AM

Even if you don't get the Missile Launcher, as soon as you have missiles, the Missile Launcher will appear on the start menu.
---
You are on the way to destruction.
You have no chance to survive make your time.

From: Luigio | Posted: 7/16/2003 9:29:21 AM

Yep, your right. At least I found it out on my own! And i have tried to do the spinner trick where you bomb the thing then immediately roll back in with no luck whatsoever.
---
WHOA DUDE! CHECK OUT THAT KID WITH THE LOOGIE!--me while watching my friend playing LOZ:WW

From: kip | Posted: 7/16/2003 11:44:09 AM

an interesting but useless thing: you can skip/delay fighting the first elite pirate. doing so prevents you from using the exit door to the elevator before elite control (as well as entering elite control from that door), because going near that door will trigger the fight. so i doubt it can even be used in low % due to the additional route problems it causes.

anyway, near the elite pirate's tube are some computers and 2 structures with a fan attached to them. get on the highest computer and morph (which can be destroyed if you shoot it with beams, so don't); if you're on it properly it will be perfectly smooth and you won't fall off.

tbj and morph out from this computer to the structure with the fan on it right next to the computer (you can only land on 2 sides of that structure from here, not all 4). once you get on it, space jump to the other fan structure which is by the upper floor with the ice troopers. then if you haven't done this already, get on the other landable side of the structure (so that you are closer to the elite pirate's tube). now you just have to space jump to the upper floor since it's right next to you. but there's a weird thing; a low invisible wall is there, so you'll need to space jump over it.

after you're at the upper floor, just get the power bomb as usual and do whatever you were going to do. the door at the top of elite control won't be locked, and the ice troopers will ignore you unless you attack them. when you come back the room will be in the same state.

i recorded this so i might make a vid of how to do it if anyone actually wants to see it.

what i'm curious about is what happens if you start the fight with the elite pirate, then leave the room by getting to the top instead of doing it before the fight. i'd guess the game would either put him back in the tube when you come back, or he would be considered dead and the shadow pirates would replace the ice troopers (most likely the latter). the only problem with testing that is it's kind of hard to do the tbjm off the computer when he's bothering you.

From: Kyuenjin | Posted: 7/16/2003 7:14:01 PM

I think I found a way to bomb out of Ventilation Shaft, and I really hope you can understand this, 'cause it's hard to explain.

Morph into the ball somewhere under the doorway. If you roll against the half-pipe towards the door, you'll notice a pattern. The ball will roll up, fall down a little ways, then roll up even rather than before on the second roll, then fall all the way back down and continue the pattern.

First, you have to waste a bomb, so get about in the midway point of the half-pipe, set one, then roll towards the door.
Now what you want to do is set a bomb *right before* you start the second roll, then set a bomb at the top of the second roll. The first bomb should then push you into the second. After that, set a bomb where the second is, then set a bomb at the top of the jump after being hit by the second. Fall into the third, get propelled into the fourth, get hit by the fourth and unmorph onto the ledge.

I can usually get the fourth bomb about halfway up the wall from the half-pipe, and I've managed to get hit by it before, but I wasn't expecting it and didn't unmorph. Go figure.

Also, there's a slight problem. It's pretty random, but sometimes the second roll won't send you the distance required - sometimes it will only go about half as far as you need. I've tried experimenting with different places in front of the door and with holding the directions differently, and it still just seems pretty random whether or not you get the big roll.

Anyway, thats that. Not that matters it much without a fix for Geothermal and Life Grove, but eh.

---
"The cruel angels thesis bleeds."

From: kip | Posted: 7/17/2003 5:50:00 AM

http://metroid.retrofaction.com/ventilation_shaft_without_boost.avi

one down then, two to go. congrats kyu. =P

From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 7/17/2003 7:02:45 AM

Yes indeed. Well done you sequence breaker... you. *awkward silence*

Congrats, I'll see what I can do geothermal core wise tonight. Not holding my breath for a solution tho. But it's obvious what a little effort and experimintation can do...

Andrew "MP Marketing Monkey" Mills

From: Luigio | Posted: 7/17/2003 6:05:36 PM

Well, I don't think anyone here cares but... I went to the sequencebreaking site and found out how to get the plasma beam early... and succeded... So, just sharing my triumphs. I also got that PB expansion in Phendrana... Also, I went into the Transport that was after that bendizium in magmoor... 'Twas fun. THEORY: You CAN go through the game without the PB, just the PB expansion
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I like cheese. Cheese is good. Gold is good. Gold is cheese.- Astrojulie

From: Lestarot | Posted: 7/17/2003 6:43:57 PM

Ok, without knowing what I was doing I accidently managed to activate the Gravity Chamber glitch where if you melt the ice at the top with the plasma beam without having the grappling hook it wont let you grapple the thing to get the missle expansion when you come back later. It there any way to reach the platform with the missle exapansion via space jumping or some other fun sequence breaking move? Or am I screwed?

From: Zanapher | Posted: 7/17/2003 8:15:56 PM

Luigio, I'm glad to see that you enjoy sequence breaking.
As for completing the game with only a PB exp (and not the main PB) it seems impossible so far because for some weird reason, when using a PB on the Phazon Elite to get the artifact if you don't have the main PB the fight will not be triggered (and so this artifact cannot be found without the main PB).

---
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be...

From: tfd | Posted: 7/17/2003 8:32:10 PM

I managed to get to the top of the Root Cave without grapple beam just now, after about 45 more minutes trying! I used the dash-jump method. I am not good at that!
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-- Tom
http://mysite.verizon.net/~vze1oue7/id9.html (my ray tracing hobby)

From: Luigio | Posted: 7/18/2003 7:50:01 AM

Yes Zanapher, I noticed that too... so I had thought at the time that you neded two or more PB's to bust it open. I also need to know when you get THE PB that you get three or two PB's that come with it. Cause my pal says that its three but i say it's too. But then, if he's right, That means that getting the PB after and expansion erases any memory of getting an expansion... So i just need that question and i'll be off. Oh yes! Thats right! Is it possible to beat OP without the X-ray visor? cause my friend says it's impossible
P.S: When I was fighting OP the screen came up that said numerous distress beacons in the crash site XD!
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I like cheese. Cheese is good. Gold is good. Gold is cheese.- Astrojulie

From: SkedarHunter | Posted: 7/18/2003 10:33:05 AM

It isn't possible to beat OP without the X-Ray Visor.
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Nobody dies a virgin; life ****s us all. - My friend

From: kip | Posted: 7/18/2003 11:16:43 AM

as for the pb question, getting the main pb after an expansion works out fine (you'll get all 4 of them like you're supposed to, although remember that one is used up in the cutscene where the electricity generator thing is destroyed).

From: hylin | Posted: 7/18/2003 12:39:51 PM

Is it possible to jump to the top platform in elite quarters during the fight with omega pirate?

I can jump to the top spire of rock in this room.

I want to jump to top platform from the spire but failed to do so. However I still think it's quite possible to do that. Do anyone want to find a way to do this?
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From: kip | Posted: 7/18/2003 1:24:30 PM

hmm... as far as i know no one has found a way up to the top there, although imo that would actually be a very worthy pursuit just to see the results.

i'm really curious to see what fighting the battle from that walkway would be like... would the troopers that appear jump up to where you are? or could you just use the walkway as a shield to ignore all their shots and damage op freely whenever he appears at a pool? it has the potential to remove any trace of difficulty from op in low %, depending on how it works.

From: Videogaming | Posted: 7/18/2003 1:42:44 PM

iirc, the troopers appear on the walkway first, and then jump down from it. So they would just battle you on the walkway, which wouldn't be much fun...but try anyway. Good job on ventilation shaft BTW. Now all we need is Life Grove and Geo Core...Soooooooooooooo daaaaaaaaaaaaamn clooooooooooooose...

Ok, I got my motivation to update the list from sources who shall remain nameless. Expect it in less than 30 min.
---
Opinions are like buttholes. Everyone has one.

From: Videogaming | Posted: 7/18/2003 2:02:31 PM

Metroid Prime High Scores

Normal any%
1. kip 1:28 (34%)
2. Radix37 1:34 (38%)
3. CAL Foolio 1:39 (43%)
4. Andrew Mills 1:57 (40%) <<<PAL>>>
5. <<<PAL>>>

Hard any%
1. Gold Leader 1:58 (31%)
2. Radix37 2:04 (46%)
3. CAL Foolio 2:49 (100%)
4. <<<PAL>>>
5. <<<PAL>>>

Normal Low%
1. TreborSelbon 2:01 (23%)
2. gamecubeman27 2:29 (23%)
3. Radix37 2:31 (23%)
4. <<<PAL>>>
5. <<<PAL>>>

Hard Low%
1. kip 4:00 (24%)
2. Gold Leader 4:01 (26%)
3. <<<NTSC>>>
4. <<<PAL>>>
5. <<<PAL>>>

Normal 100%
1. Radix37 2:10
2. CAL Foolio 2:19
3. Lazy Veysey 3:02
4. <<<PAL>>>
5. <<<PAL>>>

Hard 100%
1. CAL Foolio 2:49
2. Varsis Erion 3:50
3. Gold Leader 4:05
4. <<<PAL>>>
5. <<<PAL>>>

Best Frigate Escape Times (Time remaining)
1. kip 4:22.05
2. CAL Foolio 4:20.65
3. zell99 4:15.39

Please remember to bold new records (glances at radix). And as always, check for mistakes.

Also, someone should really try to get a 101% game. I hate when things go untried or unconfirmed...I think I'll actually give it a go later today. Only problem is, the TV I use makes the game really dark, even when I change the brightness setting. For some reason, it looks fine on Smash Bros...I dunno...any suggestions?

From: njahnke | Posted: 7/18/2003 3:35:24 PM

Try turning both the brightness on your TV and the in-game brightness (accessed from the start menu) to their highest settings.
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Nate
www.protoman.com

From: joakimbtt | Posted: 7/18/2003 4:31:55 PM

*cough* http://www.christiania.org/~werner/bigjoint/75joint/75joint.html *cough* Samus friend (=
---
Break The Targets Total Time: 03:27:72
My Website: http://members.lycos.co.uk/breakthetargets/

From: TreborSelbon | Posted: 7/18/2003 5:20:53 PM

I was going to work on Geo and Life Grove today, but there's a problem. I have to do vent. shaft first, and it's not cooperating.

---
Marie is a stunning woman with a body to die for, and you think I'm only interested in her mind? How shallow do you think I am? ~ Frasier

From: BlackMaurader | Posted: 7/18/2003 8:25:22 PM

I'm trying for the 101% game, but I'm having no luck. I'm trying for the 101% game mainly because I'm not at the skill level to do a 23% game, but still. :P
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And here's the slogan of my movement: "If it's not 2D its not for me."
-Nemo the Kid

From: kip | Posted: 7/18/2003 11:37:06 PM

uh treb, you could always test them with boost but just don't use it; then if you solve one of them we can try confirming without boost at all.

From: kip | Posted: 7/18/2003 11:41:49 PM

and just use boost to get up vent shaft i mean since it's already solved.

From: kip | Posted: 7/19/2003 4:07:33 AM

http://metroid.retrofaction.com/media/arboretum_gate.avi

it's possible to bomb jump over the runic gate in arboretum, but it doesn't look like it's any kind of use except it means you can beat the game without removing either of the runic gates.

i was trying to do it at first by space jumping over the gate but wasn't successful. it would've been a time saver for speed runs, but the problem is the fact that bomb jumps are hella slow; the 5 or so seconds it takes to do this will probably negate any time you save by not scanning the runic symbols. so unless someone is able to space jump (or maybe dbj) over the gate, it's a novelty at best.

if you move against the gate from the back side you'll find out it's really sticky though (and that it looks messed up, and that you can shoot through it at enemies on the other side... just like the elite research wall when you enter from the back).
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From: hylin | Posted: 7/19/2003 7:54:54 AM

kip, do u have movie for getting missile exp. in Root Cave without grapple beam? I still have diffculty on it. Thanks.

From: kip | Posted: 7/19/2003 9:48:38 AM

i just made one (it's uploading, so give it about 2 minutes):

http://metroid.retrofaction.com/media/root_cave_without_grapple_(dash_jump).avi

it shows skedarhunter's dash jump method instead of devilbit's, if that's okay.

From: Luigio | Posted: 7/19/2003 9:54:21 AM

I am currently trying to get up onto the walkway... is there some kind of continuous bomb jump so i can reach it? or will i just have to have sheer dumb luck to reach it. By the bomb jump i mean like how that guy got up the sun tower without spider ball.?
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I like cheese. Cheese is good. Gold is good. Gold is cheese.- Astrojulie

From: kip | Posted: 7/19/2003 12:23:02 PM

zanapher, which form of prime's can't you beat yet in your 23% game? i want to send you a vid of the relevant form so maybe we can get 23% in pal officially confirmed (even though the fact that you are there pretty much confirms it already; still).

From: Zanapher | Posted: 7/19/2003 3:37:56 PM

I have problems with both (meaning that I'm stuck against the first one but I don't feel comfortable with the second one either so it'll probably also be a problem when I reach it...).

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Nostalgia isn't what it used to be...

From: dilbert627 | Posted: 7/19/2003 8:35:07 PM

Hey kip (or CALFoolio), have you considered making a video of an entire speed run? I would LOVE to see it, it has to be impressive to watch. Also, the videos really help on learning techniques and routes. It would probably be a huge file, but maybe you could get it on FilePlanet or something. If not, maybe people could just share it on Kazaa or Bittorrent.

Sorry if this has been answered before, I don't read these boards much.

From: kip | Posted: 7/20/2003 5:46:42 AM

i record most of the things i do already, cal does too. the advantages are too much to not do so (proof, ability to use the vids as a reference point for future speed runs to see what could be improved on, etc). usually a complete run can be anywhere from 400-800 mb, but depends a lot on other factors like the bitrate and just what kind of run it is.

it's hard to get anything online because i'm on dialup and few sites have that much space. kazaa/bittorrent could work though, or something else.

From: dilbert627 | Posted: 7/20/2003 8:18:52 AM

Do you have a CD burner? At that rate, a full run would definitely fit on a CD. I have broadband, so if you sent me a CD, I could do something with it as far as hosting. I'm most interested in a pure speed run, as fast as possible (in the 1:30 range). That would also be the smallest filesize as well. Let me know if you're interested.

From: Nny | Posted: 7/20/2003 8:54:26 AM

Glad to hear you circumvented Ventilation Shaft sans Boost Ball. I'm in the middle of a run with no Spider and I'm prolonging Boost as long as possible so I suppose I could mess around with Geothermal Core. How much progress has been made there, by the way? I seem to recall from forever ago someone hypothesizing that a dash jump could possibly close the distance between the third spinner column and the bomb slot on the second column, but I don't see a way to reach that height without activating the spinners. Also, am I crazy or do I recall a way to activate said spinners without Boost? How is this done, I'm immensely curious. Unless it was only accomplished in Life Grove with the Grav Suit.

From: kip | Posted: 7/20/2003 9:25:29 AM

what is known about geo: you can get to the third spinner (the one with the spider track) without raising the first, and you can raise the third spinner without boost (very easily; it must be glitched or something).

but even if you do that, the problem is getting to the bomb slot above the second spinner that raises the ceiling when it's used; we need either a way to raise the second one without boost, or some kind of crazy bomb jump that would go high enough to get into the slot (from the bottom of the spinner; seems like you would need to go up about 7 levels of height). or some other way to reach the bomb slot from the raised third spiner.

to get to the third spinner without raising the first, go to the second one then get on the inner "ring" around it (you can stand on it for a lot of extra height). then get a slight running start, run off the edge and do a very good space jump to the third spinner. imo, it helps a lot to tap L once right when you do the first jump, then during your second jump do that turning thing as if you were doing an l-lock jump.

to raise the third spinner without boost, just go inside and hold down (or diagonally down) on the stick for a while until it starts moving up. when it does, keep that direction held until it goes all the way up (and when it's finished remember to let go or you'll roll off the spinner into the lava). if the spinner doesn't seem like it'll go up, just bomb yourself out and go back in, then try it again.

another thing: you can make the first and second spinner "jump" up quite a bit if you go inside and place a bomb, then right as samus is about to re-enter the spinner you hold down-left (other directions get different results depending on the spinner). but i don't think anyone has found a way to keep it from coming back down after that jump. this thing can be used on a lot of spinners though, not just the ones in geo.
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From: kip | Posted: 7/20/2003 11:25:57 AM

http://metroid.retrofaction.com/media/mqa_without_spider_(metroid_dash_jump).avi

http://metroid.retrofaction.com/media/mqa_without_spider_(missile_dash_jump).avi

i got some vids of mqa finally. the first one is using a metroid to dash jump to the ice door, the second one uses the missile expansion instead and is thus only doable in ntsc (remember, you can't dash jump with the scan visor in pal; that's why the pal sj first method is different).

From: theBlackChocobo | Posted: 7/20/2003 11:51:47 AM

I haven't been here in ages, but I decided to try out a 23% game (and may I say, you are as impressive as ever) so that I can try to help do some sequence breaking.
Thing is, I can't get past the first (I know, it's pathetic) part of TreborSelbon's Walkthrough (doing the dash jump to get the Space Jump). I can never seem to jump far enough. Am I supposed to let go of L as well as the other buttons? Also, To do a dash in the first place, is it joystick direction + B or B + joystick direction? Sometimes I don't do a dash at all, which is why I'm asking.
Anyway, thanks in advance for helping me out, and good luck with all of your current stuff.
---
Don't look at me in that tone of voice.

From: kip | Posted: 7/20/2003 12:03:53 PM

a dash is when you hit B while locked on to something and holding the stick either left or right; it makes her do that quick hop to the side (the game tries to teach you it against the plated beetle in the beginning). you can either try to press left/right and B at the same time, or hit B shortly after you start moving left/right; it usually doesn't matter too much. if you find that you're not doing a dash at all, you probably hit B too early.

so what creates a dash jump, is when you let go of L almost immediately after you hit B to dash, which breaks the lock on with the target. doing it so quickly, for some reason, makes samus fly left/right (keep whichever direction held but let go of all other buttons after you hit B to dash; in the case of space jump first you'd keep right held down of course).

also, it might help to watch the video here:

http://www.ens-lyon.fr/~vpoupet/metroid_prime/

if all else fails, you can always get space jump after boost like in normal sequence; it's not needed to get to boost in 23%, it's just kind of helpful against flaahgra.

From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 7/20/2003 1:03:30 PM

Another detailed description of that trick can be found at my slightly re-designed site:

www.samus.co.uk/mprime/sj_first.shtml

Full descriptions for NTSC and PAL versions of the game (including movies for both).

Andrew "Metroid Website Monkey" Mills

From: Tzyr | Posted: 7/20/2003 3:26:02 PM

The link what Andrew Mills put is very helpfull..though I found the video a little bit too fast.

Now it does describ exactly what you should do so it will just take practice.

I finally was able to do it today..I have been able to do it twice more (cause I kept falling off trying to get the space jump LOL)

I think you should try on the ground, just practice doing the dash jump. You can actually dash without letting go of L, you just do not jump high..you more just spirt back and forth.

It does take some practice.

Key things that helped me was you should be facing the spider vines when you are going to scan and as soon as you do the dash jump, let go of B.

And dun get mad when you finally make it, you end up falling off trying to land on the other ledge...lol cause if you do, you might not want to get back up hehe

From: kip | Posted: 7/20/2003 3:57:24 PM

i might have solved the life grove problem (key word: might). i simply tried it without grav, but with the phazon suit, and i can easily move the spinner all the way around by just going inside and holding the stick in different directions (usually down-left).

now, here's the problem. i had boost but never used it, so we don't know if it would really work in 22%. you might say "just try it without boost then", but remember that i can't do that because you need plasma to get the phazon suit, and thanks to geo, you can't get plasma without boost.

so, this is going to need another test after geo is solved. but at least we know you don't need grav; someone wanna solve geo? that could be the last thing now.

From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 7/20/2003 4:05:10 PM

I'll tell you what Kip.

I'll play through right now with my Action replay and moonjumping code and get Plasma without boost and then get the Phazon suit THEN the lifegrove articact and see if that works.

I'm assuming the lifegrove spinner works in the same way as the 3rd spinner in Geo in that it's glitched....

Andrew "MP Moonjumping Monkey" Mills

From: kip | Posted: 7/20/2003 4:23:56 PM

well, the weird thing is that the spinner doesn't seem to move whatsoever with varia only, but with phazon suit all of a sudden it's easy (and it's common knowledge that phazon doesn't come with grav's free movement in water).

but it obviously has to affect things in some way for it to be so easy with the phazon suit; that's what my gamble was, that it might work differently somehow. trying not to fall into thinking too inside the box after seeing how unorthodox the sun tower without spider solution was. =P

anyway, i'll feel better when i know it can be done without having boost too... we'll definitely need a confirmation game when geo is solved imo.

From: kip | Posted: 7/20/2003 4:39:44 PM

btw, please test in your ntsc copy if you can. =P

From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 7/20/2003 6:39:24 PM

Right then, here's the latest:

1). With regards to no boost for lifegrove - for PAL at least - that's a DEFANITE no go (as far as I can see). Even WITH boost (but not using it) with phazon suit, the thing didn't budge an inch!

So it seems that in NTSC it's still unsolved (sorry), but it seems another way may also be needed for PAL low percent players. Unles someone with PAL CAN get it to work like Kip did (I may have been doing it wrong).

2). You CAN jump over OP's shockwaves without the SJ. I didn't pick up the SJ boots as I had the moonjump, so I tested that and it's perfectly fine (and no, it had nowt to do with the moonjump, as when you hold L, you disable to the moonjump ENTIRELY). You just have to get the timing down and jump AT him to get over it.

Made a few interesting movies as well, so I'll put those up 2moz.

Right, I'm off to bed now all, l8r.

Andrew "Tired Speed Monkey" Mills
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From: kip | Posted: 7/20/2003 11:52:11 PM

i don't think you did it wrong, but could you try it in ntsc also? we can hope it's another ntsc/pal difference.

and if you try it, try both with/without boost. if you can't do it even with boost in ntsc, something is wrong.

From: Nny | Posted: 7/21/2003 12:01:41 AM

Woah, thanks for the info Kip. I tinkered around with it this afternoon but got momentarily frustrated, looking for tiny perches around Geo Core. Stuff like the rock outcropping behind the second spinner. No luck. Again tomorrow.

In my messing around, however, I came upon something which might have already been discovered but I haven't heard of, probably because it's almost completely useless for a low %. But it's something. Is it possible to Space Jump up to where the Missle Expansion is in Quarantine Cave? The sloping snowbank on the side of the escarpment can be slid up a ways on the first jump, with the second achingly close to the top of the ledge. Reminds me of using a ghetto jump to get the Artifact in the Tower of Light. I had to turn it off before I could land it, but it seems perfectly do-able. If this is already known, sorry for wasting your guys' time. Just a thought.

From: kip | Posted: 7/21/2003 12:08:11 AM

another thing that sess just pointed out to me: the spider ball makes the ball look different, so it might act different too (i also had spider which i just remembered might do something lame to the ball mode also).

so soon i'll try it again without spider and i guess we'll see what happens.

From: kip | Posted: 7/21/2003 12:15:14 AM

i don't think anyone has been able to get that missile expansion that way, but there is a way to get it without grapple: when the room reloads after thardus is dead there will be a sheegoth. kill it near the ledge, space jump on the corpse before it completely fades away, then space jump to the tunnel that goes to quarantine monitor.

thanks for checking out geo.

From: Videogaming | Posted: 7/21/2003 12:31:55 AM

Hmm, well, I finally popped in Prime today and had a quick go...

I tried the extra % trick with Hive Mecha, but I must have not been doing it right because it didn't work. Could someone post how to do it again please? What did happen, was that I didn't beat Hive Mecha, but when I came back after saving, I couldn't get it to activate again. When I beat Flaahgra to see what happened, the room was still tilted and screwed up, but with regular water instead of the toxic stuff.

And I tried that bomb jump over the gate in the Arboretum...I got a tbj to work pretty easily. I think bomb jumping is faster than scanning, because theough you waste time bombing, scanning takes more time because for some of the scans you have to sit still, and others you don't move as fast as you would have without scanning them. Also, what kind of jump was that in the video? That looked really weird...was that a sort of tbj, or push-against-wall-only bomb jump?

Good luck on solving Geo and Life Grove. One idea on Geo, which probably won't help...I think that you can bomb bomb slots without actually being in them. So just be very close to it, and lay a bomb, and that'll do it, I think...
---
Opinions are like buttholes. Everyone has one.

From: kip | Posted: 7/21/2003 4:24:14 AM

sess was right, it's spider that was doing it (and i was right that it was something lame like this). so to anyone who tries life grove: don't have grav or spider or the test is meaningless.

From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 7/21/2003 4:59:37 AM

@Kip: don't have grav or spider or the test is meaningless

I didn't use grav OR spiderball (I never mentioned that last nite as I never thouhgt it was relevent then).

So that knocks that off for PAL users (and possibly NTSC). Mind you, it would explain why I couldn't do it, period.

I made a video of the spinners raising when you get to the bombslot without boost (done via moonjump).

I tried the lifegrove WITHOUT the varia but WITH the phazon (so it was powersuit --> Phazon suit and no joy =/ )

Andrew "Lack of Sleep" Mills

From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 7/21/2003 4:59:52 AM

From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 7/21/2003 5:00:51 AM

WHOA! Double post. Sorry about that.

Andrew "MP Double Post Monkey" Mills

From: kip | Posted: 7/21/2003 5:09:02 AM

yeah, i figured that's why the test didn't work. kinda odd that spider would have an affect on something like this. appreciate the test man. =]
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From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 7/21/2003 5:26:46 AM

It's A-Me

Sorry I haven't been posting much but I haven't really been able to think of anything terrible original. Thinking in the box you know, too much hanging around everyone else :P

But another thought occurs to me, which although it probably won't work, it is something original I think

If the spider ball can affect the movement of the morph ball in a spinner, and if therefore a morph ball which LOOKS different may therefore somehow have different movement abilities, then perhaps the Fusion Suit Morph Ball may act differently than the normal morph ball as well...

I'm gonna screw around with that for geo core and life grove, myself. I'll let you know if anything funky comes of it.
---
Santa Claus: "Your fondness of cheese won't help you now, evil wizard!"
Daolon Wong: "That's CHI not CHEESE!" -- Jackie Chan Adventures

From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 7/21/2003 6:13:55 AM

Interesting theory there....

Will also give that a blast in PAL tonight (I have it saved without Sball still, so I'll switch on my fusion suit before loading the file).

Would certainly be interesting if it offered more than a simple cosmestic change....

Oh, and Kip, I can only test such things in PAL, as I can't seem to get my AR to work with my US copy of Prime =/

But if it's "doeable" in PAL, then - normally - NTSC will be similar.

Andrew "Tired MP Speed Monkey" Mills

From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 7/21/2003 8:13:18 AM

Well as always new evidence and tests bring about new theories

At this point I retract my notion of it being the spider ball that does it

See it happened like this

Kip was able to move inside the spinner slot ONCE. At the time he had phazon suit, spider ball, boost, all that stuff

He tried again with phazon suit but without spider and was not able to do it, therefore we figured spider was the defining factor

however, a little while ago I tried with the varia suit and the spider ball, and was not able to move it like kip was in the video he made of it

that leads one to suspect spider is not it

If spider is not it, what is? Another theory is needed, so here's what I came up with

Now why is it you can spin it with gravity but not without? Well that's simple. Without gravity you float. You are pressed against the top of the inside of the boost slot. Pressed so hard that friction prevents you from spinning freely. With gravity, you are not pressed against the top of the slot.

To put it simply, I think the time kip did it was a fluke. In other words, he did something which none of us suspected needed doing

This is supported because just now kip tried to duplicate it with the exact same conditions in the exact same file. phazon, boost, spider, all that jazz. And no good. He couldn't do it again, which suggests the items he had did not cause it

Also I tried doing it with varia-fusion suit, spider and boost and was again unable

The next most likely cause I would think after the items he has are the things he did

namely, the angle he pressed the control stick, the timing of his pressing it, the timing and angle of his re-entry into the boost slot after bombing out, possibly even the sequence of angles he hit immediately after doing so, as he definitely hit more than one

timing and angles, basically. PRECICE timing and angles

if I'm right about this, it means 2 things:

on a good note, spider and boost are not required for it to work. it can be done in a 22 game.

HOWEVER, on a bad note

it requires a very very careful and exact combination of timing and angles that is quite hard to duplicate, as indicated by the fact that it took this long for anyone to do it properly. Which means it will be rather tedious and probably very frustrating if this is the only method available when it comes time for us to DO a 22 game.

It seems the thing that needs to be done now is for someone, anyone to duplicate it. Of course, doing it with the same conditions kip had might offer better chances, but if I'm right and the items had don't matter then you could try at any time really. But until it's successfully done again, it's hard to say what caused it. Once it's done again and we get more descriptions about what EXACTLY happened when it was done, we'll have more to build on

I for one am going to try with different angles and things from now on as far as life grove goes :P

---
Santa Claus: "Your fondness of cheese won't help you now, evil wizard!"
Daolon Wong: "That's CHI not CHEESE!" -- Jackie Chan Adventures

From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 7/21/2003 8:20:23 AM

I should mention that when kip did it, he placed his bomb, but when it blew up he stayed in the slot for a while

then he moved the stick down-ish (hard to tell exactly where from the video) but he did it too early, he started to move out of the slot a bit, but then he got sucked back in almost as soon as he started to move out. Then he was able to move freely.

P.S. The reason I mentioned the friction thing, which I didn't explain last post although I meant to, is that a precice combination of timing and angle might lead to the ball getting sucked in BELOW where it 'ought' to be, leaving a little bit of space between the ball and the roof of the slot.

Maybe that out-then-in thing can somehow cause that little space? It's not much to go on, but it's a starting point at least.

---
Santa Claus: "Your fondness of cheese won't help you now, evil wizard!"
Daolon Wong: "That's CHI not CHEESE!" -- Jackie Chan Adventures

From: kip | Posted: 7/21/2003 9:15:14 AM

the only way to settle this is to pull it off in a real 22% game. since geo hasn't been solved yet, we can just do it with all the items you would have in 22% and NOTHING ELSE, so no boost, no energy tanks/expansions, no power bombs besides the central dynamo one, no charge beam, no gravity suit, no spider, and so on.

if anyone can do it even once under the conditions of a 22% game, i guess we can consider the room solved, even though we don't really understand exactly how it works.

From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 7/21/2003 2:08:46 PM

Here's those movies I promised last night:

Geo without boost!
Thought that'd grab your attention. I made a movie of what WILL happen when you get into the bomb slot without raising the 2nd spinner, leaving 2 rooms away, and then coming back...

http://www.samus.co.uk/movies/mprime/geo_wo_boost.mpg (3.3 Megs)

Sheegoth Killed in One Hit
This is what happens when you unleash a Power Bomb on Sheegoth (PB exp taken from below warrior shrine... you just gotta love that moonjump...)

http://www.samus.co.uk/movies/mprime/sheegoth_pb_death.mpg (770k)

Glitched Phazon Suit
I noticed this last night. When I collected the varia suit AFTER collecting the Phazon (but left gravity well alone), the cut-scene wasn't as glitchy as hwen you get grav after phazon, but when I morphed I noticed the shoulder pads and samus's back had changed colour!

http://www.samus.co.uk/movies/mprime/varia_after_phazon.mpg (428k)

Here's a screenshot of it as well.

www.samus.co.uk/images/extra/varia_after_phazon_glitch.jpg

One final point, it was mentioned that you float in the lifegrove spinner without the Grav suit to keep you down. Yet, you can STILL boost ok, and spin the spinner with the boost ball still, even tho you're floating. Just a point.

Andrew "Alcohol Dependant MP Speed MOnkey" Mills

From: Nny | Posted: 7/21/2003 9:55:00 PM

I restarted a game to get to Geo Core with only the essentials for a %22 run (no Spider no Boost no Charge no Therm etc etc) and I'm caught up in the Observatory. I figured my way past Reflecting Pool and Ruined Courtyard okay but this one has got me stumped. How do you get to the top without activating the spinners? I'm guessing its a Dash Jump from the second bomb slot platform to the next, but I can only get to about Samus' chest height adjacent to the platform. Maybe I need to tinker with the timing of the second jump, I dunno. Any tips? Thanks, and thanks for the movies Andrew.

So what does the Geo movie mean, anyway? The room resets if you activate the bomb slot but not the spinner...hmmm....could it be that there is no "actual" way to perform this trick? I'd hate for Geo Core to become another damage Omega Pirate type trick in that it's the only snag preventing a precious point being knocked off. But you guys have overcome harder obstacles (Sun Tower without Spider is freakin amazing), so I'm still holding out. By the way, is it really necessary to have X-Ray if you can damage OP with Power Bombs? I mean, obviously you wouldn't see which pool he was recharging in, but theoretically blind luck would allow you to hit him three or four times.

From: Banks17 | Posted: 7/21/2003 10:20:12 PM

By the way, is it really necessary to have X-Ray if you can damage OP with Power Bombs?

Yes, yes it is. You must have the x-ray visor equipped to deal any damage to OP when he is invisible.
---
Half My Fun Is Ruining Yours.
http://metroid.retrofaction.com

From: Gray Fox 9996 | Posted: 7/21/2003 10:30:51 PM

Nny - Observatory w/out boost (or after activating the thermal glitch) is a MAJOR pain, at least IMO. You have to pull off a near-perfect dash jump, with maximum distance and maximum height, to get from one platform to the other. I pulled it off recently in my thermal glitch save thanx to help from SkedarHunter, but believe me, it took a few hours of practice. Of course, if you can do the spinner trick in that room I think it'd be a whole lot easier (where you roll in, bomb out then roll back in quickly and the spinner fully activates).

Andrew - Thanx for finally checking that for me! That color change you noted is fairly interesting...does that also happen when you skip the gravity suit in a low % game? (I SHOULD know this, but I am yet to do a no-grav game)
---
"I'm like you...I have no name." Gray Fox
If knowledge is power, and power corrupts, then absolute knowledge corrupts absolutely.

From: Videogaming | Posted: 7/22/2003 12:32:28 AM

I'm copying/pasting from a previous post because nobody replied...

I tried the extra % trick with Hive Mecha, but I must have not been doing it right because it didn't work. Could someone post how to do it again please? What did happen, was that I didn't beat Hive Mecha, but when I came back after saving, I couldn't get it to activate again. When I beat Flaahgra to see what happened, the room was still tilted and screwed up, but with regular water instead of the toxic stuff.

And I tried that bomb jump over the gate in the Arboretum...I got a tbj to work pretty easily. I think bomb jumping is faster than scanning, because theough you waste time bombing, scanning takes more time because for some of the scans you have to sit still, and others you don't move as fast as you would have without scanning them. Also, what kind of jump was that in the video? That looked really weird...was that a sort of tbj, or a push-against-wall-only bomb jump?

BTW, I am going to make a new topic to try to get PAL players to fill up the list, becuase it's looking really empty right now. Maybe if we get crappy newbie times up there, it will inspire other PAL players to go for speed runs.
---
Opinions are like buttholes. Everyone has one.
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From: hylin | Posted: 7/22/2003 12:39:55 AM

some avis (usually most recently put) in

http://www.ens-lyon.fr/~vpoupet/metroid_prime/

are forbidden to access

Anybody can help? thanks!

From: OneWingedDevil | Posted: 7/22/2003 2:34:37 AM

Maybe you can use an idea from ff x bhpl

BREAK HP LIMIT

BPL

BREAK POSTAGE LIMIT

From: Toozin | Posted: 7/22/2003 2:46:53 AM

Hey, anyone who was visiting our IRC channel, we've decided to move because EsperNET is a hunk of junk and giving us constant problems. The new chatroom location is #Metroid at GamesNET. You can find a list of servers at http://www.gamesnet.net/servers.php.
---
yah, you little, who is also fat, slut - |2ag3
Maru Mari, a Metroid sprite comic: http://metroid.retrofaction.com/marumari.html

From: kip | Posted: 7/22/2003 7:11:36 AM

nny: you can also ignore observatory by instead taking the twin fires path through magmoor (starting at the root cave elevator), if you're trying to get to geo. both paths have disadvantages... imo observatory is much harder, but at least you don't die if you miss (unlike the tft dash jump/dbjm out of lava), and the scan point there never gets used up if you're far away enough. just mentioning another option.

hylin: sorry, i don't know what to say about that. i'll try to ask zanapher since it's his web space (but he's on a vacation or something). if there's a vid on the site you wanted to see, i probably could upload it somewhere else.

btw, i noticed that thing about elite quarters. it's insane how close you can get to the walkway, but i just can't find one last invisible ledge or place to land so that you could get there.

From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 7/22/2003 7:33:36 AM

@kip:

I see you mentioned a dash jump regarding Twin Fires Tunnel. Does that mean in NTSC version you do a scan-dash SJ from the spiderball track above you over to the ledge?

If not, would you mind testing that, as that would certainly make Twin Fires Tunnel MUCH easier (obviously wouldn't work on PAL tho).

Andrew "MP Theory Monkey" Mills

From: kip | Posted: 7/22/2003 8:42:48 AM

yeah, that's what i meant. zan's site is acting strange so here's a quick vid:

http://metroid.retrofaction.com/media/twin_fires_tunnel_dash_jump.avi

From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 7/22/2003 8:59:44 AM

Sweet. Thanks for that. can't believe that I never thought of that, mind you, that's another thing messing us PAL players around again... =(

Andrew "PAL MP Pro" Mills

From: Videogaming | Posted: 7/22/2003 12:35:45 PM

Just wondering, what's going on with MO and when will the update be finished? If I could make a request, I would put item-to-item speed routes on the speed section of the site...

BTW, thanks to whoever told me to adjust the in-game brightness. Worked like a charm.

And will someone please post the possible 101% trick? I tried it once, but it didn't work. Thanks in advance.
---
Pessimists are never disappointed.

From: SkedarHunter | Posted: 7/22/2003 8:38:26 PM

I tried the lifegrove WITHOUT the varia but WITH the phazon (so it was powersuit --> Phazon suit and no joy =/ )

You're using AR, right?(to get past Magmoor w/o Varia so you can get the other stuff you need to get to Life Grove)
---
Nobody dies a virgin; life ****s us all. - My friend

From: JDAdams | Posted: 7/22/2003 9:14:27 PM

Did somebody ask for rubbish PAL times?

7:54 - 24%

(Give me a break - I was the first one to get that low on PAL and I've been busy playing Zelda, Wario World and currently Sonic DX. I'll probably go back to Prime at some stage since I want to get 23% [22%?])
---
Mastered: Luigi's Mansion, Sonic Adventure 2 Battle, Eternal Darkness, Super Mario Sunshine,
Lost Kingdoms, Starfox Adventures. See quote for details
44

From: Tzyr | Posted: 7/22/2003 10:23:57 PM

dang, my game just froze ;(

I heard other people have had this happen to them as well? So far this is the second time. Once when I was trying to get the ice beam and was in the furnace, but forgot to get the wave beam lol and when I was going back, it froze..this time I just got the wavebuster before I got the spider..and it froze..

I guess these are not big glitches like the ones you have mentioned but is annoying since I just played the past couple hours and could not save :(

From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 7/22/2003 10:25:23 PM

Hi.

Been catching up with posts. Dont have something quite clear though. Usning the moon jump someone activated the bomb slot?

Sometime ago, tried to activate that bomb slot by jumping from the spider spinner using 2 variations of the L-lock space jump. One was down L, R down + L and the other one was: Down L, R up + L. Anyway the point is, got as high as does yellow pieces sticking on the top and then started the morphing but even though Samus was in full ball form at the face of the switch it didnt allow the ball in.

So thinked that the switch wasnt active until you raised the spinner. Did the post was correct?

Sorry to bother

From: TreborSelbon | Posted: 7/22/2003 10:54:29 PM

That's a bad thing. That means we need to raise that spinner somehow...

...obviously...

Oh, and games locking up. Since I've started re-doing my 23% game, it's locked up on me 5 times. 3 times in the chozo elevator, once in gathering hall, and another time on the way back from the morphing ball.

---
Maybe my love for pr0n spawned it out of necessity ~ Thomeyis, commenting on his third arm

From: tlj9204 | Posted: 7/23/2003 12:04:01 AM

Umm..it has come to my attention that I actually hold one of the records for the fastest times thing and whatnot. Tim has been too busy beating the living hell out of the site code to worry about such things.

Anyway, I got 3:39 for Hard 100%. They mentioned that was in 2nd place, so whoever's in charge of that... I guess it gets updated, and whenever I finish beating the layout up, and get it operational, I'll get around to updating it on the site.

-Tim
about to go bonkers.

---
Site Admin, Metroid Online: http://metroid.retrofaction.com
Espernet IRC Channel: #metroid-online

From: Cpt Izumi | Posted: 7/23/2003 3:04:47 AM

i'm doin a sequence breaking game, and i'm trying to do it without the super missile right now, but does this mean i'll be skipping all of the rooms that require the thermal visor to activate with the wave beam? thanks! i have the thermal visor by the way
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it's a BUMPY road (ha ha)

From: MRC W3RD | Posted: 7/23/2003 3:18:02 AM

Hey, just recently started sequence breaking. I got the early SJ easily a while back, and decided to do some more today. I had just gotten the thermal visor, was about to face thardus, when I went and got ice beam early. Now, I'm trying to get plasma early. I followed the directions to get up through the geothermal core, got up to the spider track, and jumped onto teh metal strip. I'm having problems jumping up to the last parts of the track that are sticking out. The directions given on the site aren't very clear to me. It says to lock my view down and to the left, but down and to the left of what? Should I start by facing the track, then looking down+left, or should I start by looking out over the rest of the room, with the track on my left? I'm always getting very close, but not quite enough, and sometimes it costs me a lot of energy :)

Oh, and I found something to help at the lower parts of the room. When you're on the rock spire, and need to take the long jump onto the spinner platform, use the l-lock dash jump that was used in the early SJ trick. It works here as well. Attempt to scan the monster-thing that is further away from you, then do the dash jump. Makes that jump easier, and (I haven't really tested) I think it might be the only way to make it if you raised the platform and fell back down
---
It is better to be quiet and let people think you're stupid, than it is to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 7/23/2003 5:02:35 AM

@Devilbit: So it thought that the switch wasnt active until you raised the spinner?

No, it doesn't matter if ANY of the spinners haven't been raised. As long as u get right in front of the bomb slot it will suck you in (see my geo_wo_boost movie on the previous page for proof of this being done, with the moonjump code).

Andrew "Moonjumping MP Monkey" Mills

From: Nny | Posted: 7/23/2003 11:32:15 AM

I'm at Geo Core with only the essentials and the bomb slot looks active to me. You can even scan it from the rock escarpment behind the second spinner, the blue lights inside it are on and everything. What's weird is that there doesn't seem to be any pattern to get the platform to raise. It seems almost random. At first I thought velocity or angle of entering the spinner slot in ball form would get the platform to raise, but there's no continuity in this. It sometimes raises when I roll in from the edge of the platform at full speed, then sometimes doesn't. It sometimes raises when I inch into it from close by, then sometimes doesn't. At first I thought it had something to do with how the analog stick is being pressed but there's no continuity in this either. Oh well, I'll mess around with it more after work.

From: Nny | Posted: 7/23/2003 11:33:12 AM

Oh, and thanks for the Twin Fires tip kip. That was so much easier than Observatory; I got it on my first try,

From: tfd | Posted: 7/23/2003 12:10:25 PM

>I followed the directions to get up through the geothermal
>core, got up to the spider track, and jumped onto teh
>metal strip. I'm having problems jumping up to the last
>parts of the track that are sticking out.

Here's what someone else told me, and worked very well for me. Stand under the right edge of the lowest spider block. Face right into the wall. Now do a ghetto jump. This means you need to lock the view with L (facing straight ahead into the wall, or up a bit to see the block -- your choice). While keeping L locked, press forward on the stick to push against the wall. Jump once, and in the middle of the jump somewhere, pull away from the wall. At the peak of the first jump, jump again, and start aiming to land on the block. Keep L locked the whole time during both jumps.
---
-- Tom
http://mysite.verizon.net/~vze1oue7/id9.html (my ray tracing hobby)
45

From: kip | Posted: 7/23/2003 1:55:06 PM

"does this mean i'll be skipping all of the rooms that require the thermal visor to activate with the wave beam?"

only if you want to really. the rooms you'll have to use different methods for are where there is cordite:

* ruined courtyard - cordite right before thardus. to get around this, take the twin fires path through magmoor or get the ice beam early, then head to the end of the pirate base and shoot the ice door to end up at frozen pike. take the back entrance to quarantine cave. or if you're playing a 23% game you'll never even fight him.

* sun tower - you will have to get to the top without removing the runic gate. this is accomplished either by doing kyuenjin's sun tower without spider method (only can be done right after flaahgra) to get the wild artifact early, or sess' bomb jump over the gate trick. the latter requires spider so you can't use it if you intend on skipping it.

but whether or not to skip the frigate is up to you. you don't have to unless 22% comes to pass and you want to do a 22% game. for now, you can either just dbj over the bars in great tree hall or go through without the gravity suit.

From: Cpt Izumi | Posted: 7/23/2003 4:19:32 PM

what's the method of gettin past the twin fires tunnel without losing a lot of energy and without the spider-ball? thanks!
---
it's a BUMPY road (ha ha)

From: kip | Posted: 7/23/2003 4:45:04 PM

one method: space jump to the wall on your left instead of going in the lava. you'll stop on an invisible ledge and won't fall in. put on the scan visor and turn around, then use the scan point near the start of the spider track to dash jump then space jump to the other side. (only can be done in ntsc)

another method: space jump as far as you can into the lava and move through it until you're almost at the wall at the other side. morph and do a dbjm to get out the lava.

link to a vid of the dash jump method is a page or two back.

From: Cpt Izumi | Posted: 7/23/2003 4:56:24 PM

hmm, but the video i saw the guy jumps space jumps twice for a total of 3 jumps
---
it's a BUMPY road (ha ha)

From: Cpt Izumi | Posted: 7/23/2003 5:06:31 PM

nevermind i mistook it for a 3rd jump haha, thanks kip
---
it's a BUMPY road (ha ha)

From: theBlackChocobo | Posted: 7/23/2003 5:15:01 PM

ARGH!! I have been trying to get the space jump early for two days now, to no avail! I get so close... sigh...
Well, I'll keep watching the vids and trying. Any more pointers are more than welcome. Thanks in advance again.

PS: I have missed a lot, so what are you working on now? No boost? Also, what's the extra % trick? It sounds interesting. Good luck with everything!
---
Don't look at me in that tone of voice.

From: Nny | Posted: 7/23/2003 6:48:36 PM

BChocobo>> When you start from the save on her ship, back up just a couple feet and inch a little bit to the right to position yourself on the right turbine. Lock onto the far vine with Scan Visor and just do a normal sidestep dash, but letting go of all the buttons except the analog stick in one explosive motion a split second after she starts to dash. She'll fly off the side of the ship and land on the platform. There's really nothing more to it.

Now back to Geo Core. I gave up on trying to activate the second spinner and have tried fooling around on top of the raised third spinner. This seems like the most likely way to activate the bomb slot if it were possible...it seems too convenient that the spinner can be raised so easily without boost. Anyway, my original theory was that an L lock jump with a twist (the jump you use to get onto the third spinner in the first place) would be enough to close the gap between the third spinner and the bomb slot, but the problem is the loss of height during the ball morph animation. Samus falls like a stone when she's spinning into a ball and doesn't even become a full ball until she's almost hit the second platform.

This is further problematic because the room does not have much height above the bomb slot, discouraging an attempt to simply jump from a higher point, of which I don't think anyone has even found yet. Maybe it's possible to get stuck on the bomb slot as Samus or something, kind of like how you can shimmy up the spider ball track to get to Furnace and hover on the lip before morphing and rolling through the tunnel. I don't know.

I know my posts aren't accomplishing much but I want to keep the topic of boostless Geo Core alive with my thoughts...it's SO CLOSE!

From: Cpt Izumi | Posted: 7/23/2003 7:13:59 PM

how do you do the Reflecting pool without boost ball? thanks!
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it's a BUMPY road (ha ha)

From: SkedarHunter | Posted: 7/23/2003 7:42:18 PM

Jump on top of a Stone Toad's head, then do a VERY good space jump to the level above. Funny thing is, I can never get enough height from an ST's head, so what I do is jump into this little "hole" in the wall, get as high up as I can within the hole, and space jump from there. When I play through the game, though, I get the Space Jump Boots as the first item so I can get the Wave Beam and Boost Ball(it's still required until we figure out Geothermal Core and Life Grove...Ventilation Shaft has been solved, to my knowledge) on my first trip through Phendrana, so I don't have to screw around with the fancy SJing.

And I made an interesting discovery today: another way to reach the Training Chamber in Chozo Ruins from the Main Plaza. All you need is the Space Jump. Do like you normally would to get the expansion you normally need the Grapple Beam for. Now, notice the one branch with leaves on it on your end of the gap. It can be jumped on(shooting it all over helps you figure out where to land). Space jump over to it, then from there to the branch on the other end of the gap, and from there to the other ledge. Now you can reach Training Chamber by going through the Piston Tunnel, instead of the traditional way(through Magma Pool). However, the only real use I can come up with for it is a much less painful way to get the PB expansion in Magma Pool(so it's kinda worthless in a low % game). I figure it'll become really useful once we figure out how to get the Training Chamber energy tank without at least the Boost and Spider Balls. One, it'll lead to four tanks before Flaahgra(which is only really useful if you totally suck against Flaahgra, which I doubt many people here do). Second, it might(keyword: MIGHT) give us what we need to get to Phendrana w/o the Varia Suit(unless someone has figured out that we really need more tanks, in which case we're screwed). As of right now it's of relatively little use, but it could be something in the future.(I tried getting the energy tank in Training Chamber w/o Boost or Spider, with no success, so I'll leave that to the experts)
---
Nobody dies a virgin; life ****s us all. - My friend

From: kip | Posted: 7/23/2003 7:52:23 PM

the thing about entering training chamber from the back (it is known =P) is that there will be an obstruction at the end of the piston tunnel unless you used that bomb slot in training chamber earlier (which destroys it and lets you leave through the back). so unless i'm missing something, you can't get in there without the wave beam, because the front entrance is blocked by a wave door, and the back entrance has that obstruction.

i've tried to use weapons other than the wave beam to open the door, hoping that it might be glitched somehow, but nothing besides the wave beam/buster worked. tried the same thing on other doors, like the wave door at the entrance to crossway (if you didn't need wave for that door, we would already have ice beam before flaahgra, and also the hall of elders tank before flaahgra).
46

From: SkedarHunter | Posted: 7/23/2003 8:05:30 PM

(if you didn't need wave for that door, we would already have ice beam before flaahgra, and also the hall of elders tank before flaahgra).

But then we need the Wave Beam for the purple energy field covering the Morph Ball slot that lets us get to the Ice Beam.
---
Nobody dies a virgin; life ****s us all. - My friend

From: Cpt Izumi | Posted: 7/23/2003 8:07:42 PM

i know this has probably been asked before, and i'm not really sure where i heard it so i'm askin you experts. how do you leave the room where flaahgra is and then come back and he's dead? the opposite door is locked, and the door you came in from has vines all over. or was this trick for the burn dome thing? thanks
---
it's a BUMPY road (ha ha)

From: kip | Posted: 7/23/2003 8:29:57 PM

skedar, you can tbj into the unblocked part of the passageway at the top of hall of elders (rather than use the purple slot i mean). =]

but it's useless since you would have wave beam by then... if only that thing about the door before crossway wasn't a problem.

From: kip | Posted: 7/23/2003 8:41:43 PM

i'm not sure what you mean izumi. before, people have found out (through AR tests) that if you enter sunchamber for the first time from the back, flaahgra won't even be there and you'll just fight the ghosts. the part i can't remember is whether it lets you pick up the wild artifact after they die though. and iirc the varia suit isn't there either. is that what you meant?

this would be possible to do without AR if someone found a way to get on the lowest spider block without the spider ball (starting from the bottom of the room). from there, you could space jump up to the next highest block, and so on until you reached the point where you would do the oculus bomb jump. and then an AR wouldn't be needed at all to see it for yourself.

another way it could be done would just be if someone made it to phen once without varia. then you would have boost and more tanks and you could get the spider ball which would easily let you get up there.

From: Cpt Izumi | Posted: 7/23/2003 8:46:25 PM

ohhh thanks kip, i didn't realize it was done with an AR
---
it's a BUMPY road (ha ha)

From: SkedarHunter | Posted: 7/23/2003 9:13:56 PM

skedar, you can tbj into the unblocked part of the passageway at the top of hall of elders (rather than use the purple slot i mean)

Yeah, I was about to try it once before I noticed the peg on the radiation panel in that room.
---
Nobody dies a virgin; life ****s us all. - My friend

From: Cpt Izumi | Posted: 7/23/2003 9:33:57 PM

hey kip, i've heard that people have seen your 23% run, and i was wonderin if you could somehow get me a copy too? i'd really appreciate it as i could learn a lot from it
---
it's a BUMPY road (ha ha)

From: Nny | Posted: 7/23/2003 9:59:34 PM

Well, no more success on my front. It's purportedly possible to make it to the bomb slot in Geo Core in full ball form, but I sure couldn't find a way today. I'll muster more energy tomorrow. Damn it, all the pieces of a boostless Geo Core are right in front of us, just gotta find a way to make 'em fit. One thing I noticed (that may already be known...if so, sorry) is that you can stand on a sliver of the metal edge around the circumference of the ceiling. From what I can tell, it's the highest point to stand on in an unbombed Geo Core, but it's behind the third spinner so useless for now. It's where the metal edges form an angle almost overlapping the raised spinner platform. Maybe a stepping stone to a higher part of the room? I couldn't make it so; the low ceiling kept pushing me back down.

This is probably a reiteration of information we already know, but I'm hoping you sequence breaking badasses will take the info gleaned from my failures and make something out of it. Another weird thing I observed was the nature of the third spinner glitch; it's weird how it doesn't work every time like, say, the glitchy spider ball track in West Furnace Access. Sometimes it's just stuck like the other two spinners. Maybe someone can bomb out and back in of the second spinner like a hundred times or something to get it to work. Again, this is all speculation. I wonder how Devilbit's friend got high enough to reach the slot in morph ball. That's the key, see.

From: kip | Posted: 7/24/2003 12:07:51 AM

i haven't done a 23% game, the lowest i did so far was hard 24%... did you want to see how i beat the later bosses or something? maybe i could upload them, although there isn't much to learn from the op fight since so much of it is luck with what trooper combos you get.

i already have form 1 of prime up at the site because i wanted to show it to someone before:

http://metroid.retrofaction.com/media/form1.avi

it's a big file... =P

From: redcmt | Posted: 7/24/2003 12:52:07 AM

Can someone help me out here? I just need some extra tips/hints/pointers for this. Im trying to do the dbjm from the ship to go get the space. But I simply cannot get to that damn edge. I watched the vid and everything yet I cant. I am wondering if there is a trick you guys have noticed to doing it. Like when you press forward or when you press morph. Cuz I have been trying forever and cannot get this. Its really pissing me off.

BTW - I am goign from the left engine flare corner, to the closest corner edge. Is there a different way I should aim thats closer? PLZ HELP!
---
Lgtcount - Banned with a karma of 351.
"I wish I had a friend as good as me" - My cuz
47

From: kip | Posted: 7/24/2003 1:28:14 AM

there is a much easier method to get early space jump now. unless you are trying to do this anyway as a challenge or something i'd recommend against trying that bomb jump because it'll just make you insane.

description:

http://metroid.retrofaction.com/games/mp/seq_break/early.html#space

video:

http://www.ens-lyon.fr/~vpoupet/metroid_prime/sj_first.avi

just ask if there's a problem with getting it to work. so far i haven't seen anyone say the new method is even 1/4 as hard as the ancient bomb jumps though.

From: redcmt | Posted: 7/24/2003 2:19:27 AM

Thanks, I just read that you could get it by dash jump. I was about to post telling you guys "nevermind, I got em" but you beat me to it. Thanks anyway.

BTW, I double jumped over the morph ball boss battle and got the morph. Then I activated the battle scene, and just rolled out of there. So the boss battle is still going and for awhile I could still hear the music until I went to a new area. Anyway, is this gonna come back to haunt me?
---
Lgtcount - Banned with a karma of 351.
"I wish I had a friend as good as me" - My cuz

From: kip | Posted: 7/24/2003 2:48:08 AM

shouldn't matter, it just affects the music transition for a while.

From: redcmt | Posted: 7/24/2003 2:45:40 PM

OK, thanks.

Bump
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Lgtcount - Banned with a karma of 351.
"I wish I had a friend as good as me" - My cuz

From: Cpt Izumi | Posted: 7/24/2003 3:51:05 PM

kip i watched your form1 video and i must say that was quite a show. very impressive stuff, and i learned from it too. i hope to see your OP fight as well as ridley fight and form2 if you ever upload them. thanks!
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it's a BUMPY road (ha ha)

From: Tzyr | Posted: 7/24/2003 7:00:42 PM

How did you guys get passed the cargo freight lift to Deck Gamma (on the frigate) without the gravity suit? (I assume that is the power up that it requires).

(sorry if you guys have talked about this already..but on your site I could not find how, so I tried mysel).

How I managed to do it was I ghetto jumped onto the top of the stack of crates near the entrance (well combo ghetto jumped and space jump..sometimes I was able to ghetto all the way up, other times just space jumping would work), then jumped onto the pipes and immediately morphed and rolled along the pipe. If I was slipping a little, I would just stop, use a bomb and bunce myself up higher on the pipe :)

Probably not the best way of doing it..but I cannot seem to get the L-Lock Space Jump to work (I know I am doing it wrong..heh) and I was able to get close space jumping to the ledge, but never able to get up there.

Any other methods? I am interested in hearing what others have done.

(this is just past the save point, where you can get the energy pack is under this ledge)

From: tfd | Posted: 7/24/2003 7:47:51 PM

I got up the crashed frigate cargo freight lift by bombing my way up in morph ball form too.

I just now finally managed to climb up the Phazon Processing Center w/o spider ball. Jumping up the angled girder was a pain.

In the adjacent elevator to Magmoor, I had fun climbing the rings around the circumference of the elevator. By jumping on the chozo head-like statue, I could then jump onto the top red ring. From there I could jump onto the low blue ring. Couldn't seem to get any higher. Fun to look down at the elevator platform, and to look up at the fairly close ceiling orifice.
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-- Tom
http://mysite.verizon.net/~vze1oue7/id9.html (my ray tracing hobby)

From: theBlackChocobo | Posted: 7/24/2003 8:21:46 PM

WHEEE!! I finally did it! More by luck than anything else, I think, but still, it's done! Yay!! Well, cya all. Good luck with stuff.
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Don't look at me in that tone of voice.

From: Tzyr | Posted: 7/24/2003 9:23:03 PM

dang..almost out of the frigate..but got stuck

anyway of getting out of the hydro access tunnel without the gavity suit? LOL the bubbles keep pushing up ;p hehe I got the energy tank easily lol but cannot get down hehe

or do I have to restart? :o

From: SkedarHunter | Posted: 7/24/2003 9:41:14 PM

You need the Boost Ball if you're trying Hydro Access Tunnel w/o Gravity, however I can't seem to get it to work(maybe I'm doing something wrong).

BTW, where am I supposed to bomb jump over the gate in Great Tree Chamber if I'm coming from the Chozo Ruins elevator? I've tried double and triple bomb jumping in different spots with no success. If I can get past that, we'll have an extra person to work on Life Grove w/o Boost(if you get my drift). Thanks in advance.
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Nobody dies a virgin; life ****s us all. - My friend
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From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 7/24/2003 9:44:47 PM

Easiest way I found to get out of hydro access is like so:

See the z axis of the world (the one that goes into your screen) is all narrow in this room. But it's slightly wider than you in morph ball form

If you move UP and DOWN while you're stuck up there at the top of that vertical thing that the bubbles push you into, you'll wiggle in that z dimension

do it a lot, and you'll orient yourself in that direction

Now hold UP and charge your boost

then hit down and release it, you'll boost towards the screen and hit the wall and go down

keep holding down and you should get stuck, still facing down, allowing you to charge another boost, keep holding down until you're at the bottom and you'll get stuck after every boost and not get pushed back up

getting that first initial boost down is the tough thing. Just experiment with your timing. Up and Down is all you'll need to use, don't wiggle side to side or you'll disorient yourself

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Santa Claus: "Your fondness of cheese won't help you now, evil wizard!"
Daolon Wong: "That's CHI not CHEESE!" -- Jackie Chan Adventures

From: Tzyr | Posted: 7/24/2003 10:05:03 PM

Thank you Youkai Sesshoumaru!!!

:D

luckily I did have boost..heh I was trying it before..but to no luck..kept getting bounced around..I was able to get it to go down a little..but everytime after that would boost in another direction..

The UP and DOWN was the key..that I make the ball basically vertical..(well the direction you move)..cause once you are in that position..it is pretty straight forward..it only too 2 boosts after the first one to get back down..

heh thanks again :)

From: Radix37 | Posted: 7/24/2003 10:05:40 PM

Just a note that you can get through hydro access in only one boost. After the first stream pushes you up, go slowly to the end of the next tunnel and the bubbles will start to push you up before you go flying up to where the tank is. From there do the up/down/boost thing described in Sess's post and as soon as you get a big boost down, push right, and you're out!

From: Cpt Izumi | Posted: 7/25/2003 2:46:27 AM

as with Skedar, i'm having trouble bomb jumping the bars in the Great Tree Hall as well, any help is appreciated =).
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it's a BUMPY road (ha ha)

From: Cpt Izumi | Posted: 7/25/2003 3:07:43 AM

how do you get the missile expansion in the gravity chamber?? thanks!
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it's a BUMPY road (ha ha)

From: kip | Posted: 7/25/2003 3:52:24 AM

vid of the great tree hall thing is at zan's site (and that "forbidden" error doesn't seem to be applying to it).

use a dbj to go over the bars, but place bomb 3 sooner than you would usually. placing it close to bomb 2 gives almost as much height as a perfect tbj (not too soon though).

also, don't press against the bars the whole time, that will just make you fall sooner. just stay right next to the bars at the spot in the vid and dbj straight up, then as you near the peak of your ascent (or very soon after bomb 3 hits), move toward the bars. it all has to be done really precisely.

From: NintendoandFFplayer | Posted: 7/25/2003 1:36:22 PM

I just want to know if you found a way to get the Artifact of Strength without the boost ball. Any answer will be appreciated!
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Go there if you want to see very cool pictures of Zelda, Samus and others made by Clint Law: http://elfwood.lysator.liu.se/fanq/c/l/clinton2

From: njahnke | Posted: 7/25/2003 1:42:34 PM

NintendoandFFPlayer: The method I discovered I personally think is the easiest, especially if you are bad at space jumping.

Quoted from my discovery post:

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I'm attempting a low percent game, and I was going to get the Artifact of Strength without the boost ball, but I wanted to try to figure out how to do it myself. Well, I couldn't make a jump from the Pirate workstation where the Spinner is (the "original" and "alternate" methods in that movie dir), so I came up with a really easy way to climb the wall right below where the path to the Artifact starts.

Start facing the door out to the Triclops Pit. Look to your left and you will see a sort of darker bit of rock sticking out to the left (down by the lava). Wedge yourself into the area between the dark rock on the left and the standard rock on the right and ghetto jump up to a ledge slightly to the left of your starting position. Try to let Samus "slide" a little bit up the rock before the space jump.

From the small ledge, face the rock wall in front of you, and ghetto jump up to the left again. This one doesn't have to be very precise at all. You'll land on a larger ledge just below the start of the path to the Artifact. Turn to the right so the rock wall fills your field of view again. Just ghetto jump one more time forward, and you'll easily clear the wall. Now there's just a short walk around the room to the Artifact!

--

I'll get a vid up in a minute, accidentally deleted the one I made after the discovery...
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Nate
www.protoman.com

From: njahnke | Posted: 7/25/2003 2:29:51 PM

Okay, here's the vid:

http://www.protoman.com/strength_without_boost.avi

You'll need DivX on your computer to play that.

If you have QuickTime 6, you can also view the MPEG4 version:

http://www.protoman.com/strength_without_boost.html

It's a bit dark, but you should be able to make out the jump and lock timing from it.

Enjoy!
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Nate
www.protoman.com

From: CtrlAltDestroy2 | Posted: 7/25/2003 3:11:50 PM

Ok, I found some werid glitches. Possibly these have already been mentioned, but they're still pretty funny.

Get the early space jump boots. Then, go to the hive totem. Instead of crossing the bridge, space jump over the left side of the bridge. You just got the missle launcher without fighting the wasps.

Get the energy tank if you want. Now, while standing right under mecha, step onto the bridge. You'll be teleported to the center of the room. Mecha will close, but with no missle launcher :) As soon as you can move again, turn left, step onto the rock sticking out of the acid, and space jump towards the door. Leave the room. Notice that the music is still playing :) Go through a few rooms, then come back. The battle will mysteriously disappear. But the room will still be in the same condition as it was before the battle started (Like the acid pool on top of Mecha's platform)

Here's another one. Get the Morph ball without triggering the beetles. Get out without triggering the beetles either. Now, the music to the Chozo ruins will be messed up for the rest of the game.
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From: Videogaming | Posted: 7/25/2003 3:50:16 PM

OK, I've been trying for the 101% game, but I can't get the Hive Mecha glitch to work. Here's what I've been doing:

-Clear the frigate, get early sj
-Get missile expansion in Main Plaza, save, then get missile expansion in ruined gallery
-go to hive mecha room, and have 8 or 9 missiles, not the full 10
-start across the bridge to activate the fight. Do not get missile launcher or etank
-fight a couple of wasps, then backtrack to the save point, and save

What am I doing wrong? And when are you supposed to magically get a max of 15 missiles? Am I correct in assuming that you will have 15 missiles, but only pick up two expansions?
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Pessimists are never disappointed.

From: NintendoandFFplayer | Posted: 7/25/2003 4:51:09 PM

Thanks for answering but it's ok for the video. I just wanted to know another method. I have found one, which is also quite simple.

All you need to do is let a Puffer (I don't remember if it's it's real name), the one at the end of the "jumping course" on the wall in front of you when you enter. Then, you go where the spinner is and jump on the highest computer. From there, L-lock on the Puffer that you let alive (it should be down and a little bit to the left) and Dash Jump, then just jump and you'll arrive on the ledge where the Artifact is. I'm not very good at Dash Jumping and I always get it the first try.
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Go there if you want to see very cool pictures of Zelda, Samus and others made by Clint Law: http://elfwood.lysator.liu.se/fanq/c/l/clinton2

From: Refreshment | Posted: 7/25/2003 6:15:54 PM

Nintendo&FFplayer:

That method is already known. There are many ways to get that artifact. Like 3-4 posibly, the last one discovered was mentioned in a previous post.

From: Banks17 | Posted: 7/25/2003 6:25:10 PM

Videogaming: Are you doing this on the PAL or NTSC version of the game. I tried it on NTSC, and had no success. Yet Andrew Mills appeared to confirm it possible on the PAL version...
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"Try varying the timing as you drop Bombs to reach even greater heights." - Metroid Prime Instruction Booklet
http://metroid.retrofaction.com

From: SkedarHunter | Posted: 7/25/2003 7:17:06 PM

Ok, now where is zan's site?
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Nobody dies a virgin; life ****s us all. - My friend

From: Videogaming | Posted: 7/25/2003 10:57:17 PM

I have NTSC. Does Kyuen have PAL? If so, it may be PAL only...in any case, Kyuen, show yourself and tell us what to do :P
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Pessimists are never disappointed.

From: NotN00b | Posted: 7/26/2003 10:18:55 AM

A question, is there a certain spot to jump the bars in the great tree hall? also is there a movie of it in MPG or MPEG format? I cant watch .avi e.e
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"After reading the harmful effects of Alcohol, I decided to stop reading." --My Friend XD!

From: redcmt | Posted: 7/26/2003 12:27:06 PM

Cpt Izumi, if you have the grapple, you can get it by plasm beaming the ice at the top and then you can figure it out from there.

If you dont have the grapple beam, or you sequence broke like me and then the game glitched and made the grapple hook turn off so it couldnt be used this is what you do. Go to the 2nd door, the one above water. Now if you look out at the room, you should see stagalite, cept that the middle of it isnt there. This is kind of hard to explain but jump onto one of the cracks on the lower part, then jump into that space where the middle of it should be (I know this is a horrible explanation if thats what you're thinking). Then you need to wait for the pulse bombu to circle around until they are on the side completely opposite of the missile expansion. Then do a dash jump with a space jump after it and you should fly through the hole get the missile expansion in the process. You should kind of figure it out on your own from there on cuz I did and I didnt even know about any of these techs or sequence breaking till a few days ago. Anyways, thats the best explanation I can give for it.
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Lgtcount - Banned with a karma of 351.
"I wish I had a friend as good as me" - My cuz

From: kip | Posted: 7/26/2003 12:31:00 PM

this is zan's site:

http://www.ens-lyon.fr/~vpoupet/metroid_prime/

From: kip | Posted: 7/26/2003 12:31:27 PM

ok guys, time to go to the next topic when it's made.
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Current Speed Runs

All Speed Runs

Introduction

GameFAQs Topics

Techniques

Early Items (Quick Links)

Skipping the Thermal Visor

Skipping the Grapple Beam

Skipping the Charge Beam and Super Missiles

Skipping the Gravity Suit

Skipping the Spider Ball

Skipping the Boost Ball

Skipping Space Jump

Without Plasma Beam

Without Morph Ball Bombs

Early Missile Expansions

Early Energy Tanks

Speed Tricks

Boss Tricks

Version Differences

Secret Worlds

Other

MP Fastest Time Rankings and Sequence Breaking Discussion (v3.0)